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Thread Author: merlin
Thread ID: 4656
Thread Info
There are 23 posts in this thread, and it has been viewed 8603 times.
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Knights of the Round
merlin
i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/merlin196/Video%20Games/KOTR_zps646cbb54.jpg

A few of us were discussing Knights of the Round in another thread recently and I feel since this game is so amazing it really deserves to have it's own discussion thread here at NGFL. I would be very interested to hear what other members here think of the game and perhaps this thread could also be used to discuss gameplay tactics.

YouTube Video


Knights of the Round web pages created by NGFL members:

Knights of the Round page by Shadi Potter (navigate to KOTR in menu)

Knights of the Round page by Smccd

Reviews:

Review by Xenodolf

Review by KasketDarkfyre

Useful Links:

FAQ

Capcom wikia page

Manga strategy guide

Chinese Knights of the Round forum

Knights of the Round expert video playlist

Strategy, tips, tricks discussion thread at MARP

Opinions of NGFL members:

Basashi King:

merlin i agree with you about knights of the round - its legendary. i love the levelling up especially, and the characters are great. what a fabulous game!

i also love kotr and have fond memories of playing it in some stinking cafe back in the day in my hometown. i always loved perceval back then but tend to go for arthur or lancelot these days. im pretty poor at the game but love it nonetheless. i still play it occasionally in japan, although theres no way i can ever see myself clearing it in one credit!


Merlin:

the art and music are excellent and when you know how to use all the different moves effectively and have mastered blocking and countering the gameplay feels really satisfying. The scoring system where you earn bonus points from killing multiple enemies of the same type in sequence was a great idea. The boss battles are very exciting too.

I do the 'bird man trick' at least once in each playthrough. I used to always deliberately lose a life during the Braford fight so I could grab a 2UP at the start of the third stage. I've stopped doing that but still go for the 1UP later in that stage.

I've also noticed that Lancelot seems to be the most popular of the three. Perceval has always been my favourite though and I tend to do better with him. I like his dash move and that he does do a lot of damage.

There are a few interesting things about this game some people might not be aware of for example that you can dismount from a horse. I've seen some players getting to Balbars with two horses by moving each horse across the screen in turn. Also some people have learned how to control 'step value' in the game so that they can get lots of extra lives and wands from chests.


Priest:

Knights of the round is a classic.

Knights of the round is a great arcade game, But I like King of dragons better (similar game)


Smccd:

For me, it's definitely Knights of the Round (arcade). That game scores a 10 out of 10 on all fronts. If there's one arcade game you should play from the late 80s-early 90s era, it should be this one!

The setting was 3 lives for a credit back where I played it. I remember even now the progression of the game when I beat it. I knew that Muramasa would kill me once, so I tried and got there with all 3 lives.

Garibaldi was very hard for everyone playing that arcade machine, because we never continued, so we had limited exposure to the fight. I got to him with 2 lives, and in the end I was left with only a sliver of red bar on my last life; so little that I couldn't use my desperation move, and I actually panicked. Garibaldi still had an inch or so left. In the end it was a block -> power attack combo that killed him.

Everyone used Lancelot in that arcade. The more advanced players used Perceval, and then Arthur in that order. The order of popularity was definitely dictated by how fast they perform their power attack (forward+fire), since block -> power attack was the bread and butter of players there.


Ste C:

Knights of the Round by Capcom is top. beautiful graphics.

Knights of The Round is a game i play lot fantastic. Knights Of The Round is Top stuff lovely graphics , I tend to play this on mame as the version on the PS2 Capcom legends disk does not seem as fluid and the graphics are a bit blurry.


Tobalman:

Knights of the Round was OK. The controls are a bit stiff, and the animation isn't as fluid as other, notable Capcom games, but this is just me being harsh on the game.


Other games which might interest fans of KOTR:

Knights & Dragons: The Endless Quest

OpenBOR game created by Pierwolf which is a cross between Knights of the Round and The
King of Dragons with some D&D mixed in too.

YouTube Video


Shui Hu Feng Yun Zhuan

A Chinese Mega Drive game with very similar characters and gameplay to Knights of the
Round. Just like in KOTR you can cut treasures into smaller parts.

YouTube Video
 
merlin
smccd wrote:

I've taken a look at the expert player forum, and the amount of heuristic data they pulled out on the game's random number generator is impressive. I've mostly looked at http://translate....qqLNeB7e9w

From what I can tell, the RNG is a poor one, where the sequence is advanced by a certain number of "steps" based on various player actions, thus explaining its "semi"-predictability. I'm a bit surprised by this, as it's quite easy to make a much fairer RNG.

Funny you should mention Balbars. He's probably the easiest boss in the game because he takes damage when down. If you get to him with about 80% life, you just do mega-crush, followed by the forward+fire heavy attack, and repeat until he dies.



Nice find smccd. I hadn't looked at that thread before. (forum seems to be down at the moment though?) It's impressive that people have been able to figure out how the random number generator works. This video shows someone manipulating the step value so they finish the game with 12 lives.

YouTube Video


I haven't used your Balbars tactics before but that sounds like a very effective strategy. These days I'm better than I used to be at getting to Balbars with a horse so tend to fight him while mounted only going for hits while he's jumping so he can't grab me.

Something I only found out about recently and thought was interesting is that it's possible to extend scoring chains longer than normal by using certain attacks. Normally the bonus points you score by killing the same type of enemy in sequence come to an end after killing 4 enemies. It's possible to keep the chain going however by killing the fifth enemy with the jumping horse attack (forward,forward) or a mega crush.

I'm still looking for the manga strategy guide. If anyone can tell me where to find I would really appreciate it. I've found one page.

i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/merlin196/Video%20Games/kotrmanga_zpsc4e4afbe.jpg
 
reelmojo
Just wanted to say that I do own Shui Hu Feng Yun Zhuan and it comes highly recommended to any fans of Knights of the Round. Pay no attention to the fact that it's a pirate game (or the fact that it steals music, sound effects, and occasionally sprites from obvious sources), its gameplay far surpasses any pirate game I've ever played.

Knights of the Round is a game I need to dedicate more time to. I could say the same about Capcom themselves though. It would have been a very welcome addition to Capcom Arcade Cabinet, but maybe they're either saving it for a second CAC compilation or a solo release. Either way, the new generation of gamers needs this.
 
SupraGenius
This really is a fun game. I have unfortunately never seen it in a cabinet. I was first exposed to King of Dragons and liked it. I later bought Knights of the Round as part of the Capcom Classics Collection for PS2, and loved it. However, I guess because I played it so much later than other arcade games, I can only feel that it must have been a precursor to the wonderful D&D arcade games. It is definitely worth playing, and easier to pick up than the more complex D&D games, though. It has a good degree of polish, and with some practice (thankful I'm playing it on my old playstation 2 instead of losing quarters) the game seems to be pretty fair, and not a total coin thief. I still think I'd suggest King of Dragons for party gaming, though. Just having the vastly different classes in KoD makes working in tandem more enjoyable when people know what they are doing. I find KotR to be more brawly.
 
merlin
I haven't spent much time with Shui Hu Feng Yun Zhuan yet Reelmojo but it does seem like an excellent side scroller. I really need to play it more. Once you become good at blocking and counter attacking and work out the boss strategies Knights of the Round becomes so much more enjoyable to play. I seem to remember you said there was an arcade near you which had KOTR which is really lucky.

Another game that reminds me a lot of KOTR is Age of the Beast but I'm not holding out much hope of that ever being finished.

Good to see you also really like KOTR too SupraGenius. The King of Dragons is also a fantastic game and I know some people prefer it. KOTR does have more moves though and for me the gameplay just feels more satisfying particularly because of the blocking/countering aspect and the boss fights are a bit more interesting I feel. I've heard people complain the game is too difficult and a quarter muncher but like you said the level of challenge doesn't feel unfair at all.

Isao Abe composed with some very memorable music for this game. I love the soundtrack
especially the themes for stage 2, stage 5 and the ending.

YouTube Video
 
smccd
I've made a lot of additions to my in-depth review at http://www.sebast...epth-revie

I've added:
- SNES port info
- info on the only KOTR hacked ROM out there
- general and advanced (technical) info on exploiting the random number generator

Merlin, if you could please update the link in your original post to be the one here, I'd appreciate it!
 
merlin
Nice update to your KOTR page smccd! One of the best pages about the game I've come across on the net. I haven't played the hack before so it was interesting to read about the differences. That's a lot of detailed info you've written about the random number generator. I updated the link in the first post.

I finally found the complete 79 page manga. Very cool! That site also has stage maps and links to superplay videos which include commentary.

http://sgw.moo.jp.../comic.htm

Unfortunately the Chinese KOTR forum is now dead but it's still possible to access it using the wayback machine.

http://web.archiv....5d6d.com/

There seems to be a fair amount of discussion about the game on Baidu.

http://tieba.baid...;fr=search

Here's a video on Youku of someone getting a score of 1,100,220. Amazing score!

http://v.youku.co...3OTY4.html

I've been playing the game a lot in Taito Hey this year and feel I've really improved. I finally managed to do a 'no miss' recently (with Lancelot) which I was happy about.
 
smccd
merlin wrote:

Nice update to your KOTR page smccd! One of the best pages about the game I've come across on the net. I haven't played the hack before so it was interesting to read about the differences. That's a lot of detailed info you've written about the random number generator. I updated the link in the first post.

I finally found the complete 79 page manga. Very cool! That site also has stage maps and links to superplay videos which include commentary.

http://sgw.moo.jp.../comic.htm

Unfortunately the Chinese KOTR forum is now dead but it's still possible to access it using the wayback machine.

http://web.archiv....5d6d.com/

There seems to be a fair amount of discussion about the game on Baidu.

http://tieba.baid...;fr=search

Here's a video on Youku of someone getting a score of 1,100,220. Amazing score!

http://v.youku.co...3OTY4.html

I've been playing the game a lot in Taito Hey this year and feel I've really improved. I finally managed to do a 'no miss' recently (with Lancelot) which I was happy about.


Ah, great, thanks for the update!
It'd be great if we could get that manga translated to English... It looks interesting, and a novel way to teach new players this great game!

I'm glad you were able to pull out Wayback Machine records of the expert forums. I will spend some time there to see what more I can learn, and then translate it to proper English Smile

Hehe, my page was meant just to hold some of my memories, but now I'm pushing to add as much content as possible about the game. I'm still adding to the page, so stay tuned Pfft
 
merlin
smccd wrote:

It'd be great if we could get that manga translated to English... It looks interesting, and a novel way to teach new players this great game!



Yes that would be great if the manga was translated. I've never seen a game strategy guide in the form of a manga before. Love the boss illustrations in particular.

Good to hear you will keep adding to your page smccd.

Hope to see a few other people posting their thoughts about the game here.
 
smccd
I've updated http://sebastianm...pth-review once again. I think this is its final version.

This time I've added:
- more hacks/bootleg versions info
- some real life historical considerations
- info about the movie Excalibur from 1981, from which KOTR draws inspiration, characters, etc.
 
merlin
Nice update. Thumbs Up I noticed you also posted about your review page at some other forums. Hopefully it will encourage a few more people to give the game a try or take another look if they've played KOTR before. There is a lot more to this game than meets the eye which people might not realize after a quick playthrough on Mame.

I've long been fascinated by the Arthurian legend and from a young age enjoyed reading the stories and watching TV dramas and films about King Arthur, his knights and the quest for the grail. Excalibur is a masterpiece. Still the best film about King Arthur I've seen. The similarity between Merlin in the game and film is quite noticeable as smccd said.

Here's a picture of my PCB. Definitely the most prized part of my game collection. The holy grail of gaming! Grin

i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/merlin196/Video%20Games/IMG_0627_zps41795203.jpg

YouTube Video
 
shion
Do tell of the unseen depth this game has, Merlin. Smile
 
http://www.gamefaqs.com/users/1stTobalMan/contribu
merlin
Wonderboy wrote:

Do tell of the unseen depth this game has, Merlin. Smile


Nice to see someone else posting in this thread Wonderboy. Smile

What I mean is that people who haven't spent much time with the game might not be aware of how many moves there are or realize the importance of blocking/counter attacking and come away thinking it's a simpler game than it actually is. Quite often in youtube videos I've seen people not blocking very much or not using the characters' specials e.g. Lancelot's kick move or the medium slash moves of Arthur and Lancelot.

I'd say the game does have a reasonable amount of depth:

1) quite a few moves - the characters have three basic attacks each, special moves, mega crush, an evading move and the moves you can do while mounted

2) the blocking and counter attacking which takes time to master, two different ways to block

3) the scoring system (chains can be extended longer than four enemies with certain attacks) and you can score more points finishing off enemies with the jumping horse attack

4) character enhancement through the leveling system

5) being able to dismount from horses, it's possible to keep more than one horse in play

6) the bird man tricks you can do to earn extra lives and wands

7) it's possible to learn how to manipulate the step value like the Chinese players do (not something the developers intended obviously)


A few quotes from this review:

http://www.allgam...tab=review

As with most side-scrollers,Knights of the Roundis a button-mashing festival. As the enemies surround you, simply whale on them until they die. That is about the only strategic tip you'll need.


quarter muncher


edit: corrected a mistake. Thanks to Smccd for the info.
 
shion
I can definitely appreciate the level of design that went into this game, Merlin. Most people I saw in the arcades played beat 'em ups to button mash, so this misconception towards this type of gameplay is not only reserved for KR, I think. Beat 'em ups, especially when well designed, can be pretty rewarding when played properly, like this one.

For the longest time, I've realized the Japanese have an unfair advantage with their games; they know all the controls and all the gameplay features. They tend to also know all story related elements. I assume this information was taken from dedicated magazines, TV segments, demos in arcades, group sessions in arcades, etc. We really didn't get that kind of stuff here. Oh well, it's fun learning the stuff I never knew concerning the games of my youth, piece by piece.
 
http://www.gamefaqs.com/users/1stTobalMan/contribu
merlin
Good to hear you can appreciate the design of the game Wonderboy. Yes you're right the button mashing misconception is quite common with other games of this genre too. Quite often people say they find beat 'em ups too repetitive but like you say when played properly they can be very rewarding. My favourite genre of arcade game actually.

Smccd could I make a small suggestion please about your excellent KOTR page? Maybe it would be worth mentioning the medium slash moves of Arthur and Lancelot and also that there are two ways of blocking. Just an idea. I noticed Shadi Potter also didn't mention those medium attacks.

A member at neo-geo.com recently wrote a nice review of the SNES version. Well worth a look.

http://www.rvgfan...55312.html

A brief video I recorded in Taito Hey in January.

https://www.youtu...q5MQG-tpTE
 
smccd
merlin wrote:

Good to hear you can appreciate the design of the game Wonderboy. Yes you're right the button mashing misconception is quite common with other games of this genre too. Quite often people say they find beat 'em ups too repetitive but like you say when played properly they can be very rewarding. My favourite genre of arcade game actually.

Smccd could I make a small suggestion please about your excellent KOTR page? Maybe it would be worth mentioning the medium slash moves of Arthur and Lancelot and also that there are two ways of blocking. Just an idea. I noticed Shadi Potter also didn't mention those medium attacks.

A member at neo-geo.com recently wrote a nice review of the SNES version. Well worth a look.

http://www.rvgfan...55312.html

A brief video I recorded in Taito Hey in January.

https://www.youtu...q5MQG-tpTE


Could you be a bit more specific about how the "medium slash" moves are performed?

And regarding the two ways of blocking, do you mean:
1. FIRE + BACK
2. Just BACK, at the exact right time
?
 
merlin
smccd wrote:
Could you be a bit more specific about how the "medium slash" moves are performed?


Smccd I mean the moves which can be done either as b,A (to attack enemies behind you) or b,f,A (to attack enemies in front).

In the FAQ I linked to in the first post Arthur's move is called 'Vertical Cut' and Lancelot's move is called 'Cross Slash'.

smccd wrote:
And regarding the two ways of blocking, do you mean:
1. FIRE + BACK
2. Just BACK, at the exact right time


Yes that's what I mean. Smile
 
smccd
merlin wrote:

smccd wrote:
Could you be a bit more specific about how the "medium slash" moves are performed?


Smccd I mean the moves which can be done either as b,A (to attack enemies behind you) or b,f,A (to attack enemies in front).

In the FAQ I linked to in the first post Arthur's move is called 'Vertical Cut' and Lancelot's move is called 'Cross Slash'.

smccd wrote:
And regarding the two ways of blocking, do you mean:
1. FIRE + BACK
2. Just BACK, at the exact right time


Yes that's what I mean. Smile


Ah, you mean the turn-around attacks (as I call them)!
I will add them to the review. You mention only Lancelot and Arthur, but I think Perceval has this move as well. I will verify this.

Also, I will add the second blocking method, as you mentioned.

Now, one other thing I'm missing is dismounting. I cannot, for the life of me, remember how to dismount. Help! Smile
 
merlin
smccd wrote:
Ah, you mean the turn-around attacks (as I call them)!
I will add them to the review. You mention only Lancelot and Arthur, but I think Perceval has this move as well. I will verify this.


Very interesting! I just tested it and you are quite right. I didn't actually know Perceval had that move! It isn't included in the FAQ and the animation looks very similar to his normal attack.

So do you feel those moves are mainly for attacking an enemy behind you? I sometimes use Lancelot's cross slash to attack enemies in front since it has a longer range than his normal attack and does more damage.

smccd wrote:
Now, one other thing I'm missing is dismounting. I cannot, for the life of me, remember how to dismount. Help! Smile


I learned how to dismount from michaelpf08 on Youtube (who was a moderator at the KOTR forum). If you press A+B at the right moment (while doing another action) instead of doing the normal A+B charging move you will dismount from the horse. I do it during the f,f, jumping move when the dirt on the ground disappears. It's also possible to dismount when changing direction or when the horse rears up. I need to practice more because I quite often accidentally do the normal A+B move but other players are able to do it consistently.

I rarely use dismounting but I think it's cool that it's possible to do it. Some Chinese players seem to use it quite often on stage 5 so they can get to Balbars with two horses.

https://www.youtu...rEZ45CkE3U (3:35 and video description)

YouTube Video
 
smccd
I've added some more info around the following at http://www.sebast...pth-review

- dismounting (in the Mounted Combat section)
- blocking by pressing back
- turn-around attack via back, then fire
- releasing the horse via fire+jump
- the weird staggered hit from horseback (fire, then jump)
Edited by smccd on 20. October 2014 13:29
 
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