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Thread Author: smccd
Thread ID: 3862
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There are 32 posts in this thread, and it has been viewed 10214 times.
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Need someone to try my homebrew game on actual Neo Geo CD hardware
smccd
Hello,

I have recently ported a small AES game I made, to the Neo Geo CD. I'd like to know if it works on real hardware, but the problem is I don't own a system Smile

The CD image can be downloaded from http://www.sebast...r_NGCD.zip

If anyone would give it a try and report back the result, I would be grateful Smile A photo of the console/TV with the game running would be a bonus, and would go on my site immediately!

Thanks in advance
 
-SD-
Hello, nice to see you here. You may have noticed I started a thread a few days ago regarding your website and the Neo Thunder game, as I was rather impressed by your work.

Unfortunately, I don't own a CD system either so I can't help you out:( But I'm sure someone here will give you a hand.

Have you looked into Neo Geo Pocket Color development at all?
Beard Complete UK/Euro Clamshell NEO•GEO Pocket Collection Headbang
39 Color & 2 Cover Variations, 5 B&W
 
smccd
-SD- wrote:
Hello, nice to see you here. You may have noticed I started a thread a few days ago regarding your website and the Neo Thunder game, as I was rather impressed by your work.

Unfortunately, I don't own a CD system either so I can't help you out:( But I'm sure someone here will give you a hand.

Have you looked into Neo Geo Pocket Color development at all?


Hi there,

I have found and read the thread, and I must thank you for your very kind words!

Only briefly have I looked into NGPC as a development platform, a while ago. If I remember correctly, I couldn't find any resources other than assembly-based ones. Up until a few weeks ago I have had a backlog of platforms for which I was going to write small samples. At the moment I am almost done (Atari 5200 is the last platform for which I have decent tools), so I will try my best to get something going for the NGPC.

The NGCD port of Neo Thunder was due to an email I received, requesting that I port it. I got pretty frustrated the first time I tried (a while ago), so I went back and things worked out well.

Hehe, my original plan was to buy a NGCD system right after my AES, but I got way too addicted to collecting AES games, so to date I still don't own a NGCD Smile
 
merlin
Hi. It's always great to see some more Neo Geo homebrew development. I imagine even a relatively simple game must be quite complex to program. Well done. Clap

I burned a copy of Neo Thunder and tested it on my CDZ console and it works perfectly! I really didn't expect that because I've burned a few NGCD games in the past for a friend who has a top loader and they didn't work on my CDZ. It seems that often burned games won't work on a CDZ. The only slight issue is that the letter 'S' is getting cut off the word 'Shield' at the bottom of the screen which didn't happen when I played the game on Nebula. Maybe that's something to do with my TV.

I hope you will continue to develop homebrew games for the Neo Geo.

i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/merlin196/Neo%20Geo/P1010048.jpg

i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/merlin196/Neo%20Geo/P1010075.jpg

i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/merlin196/Neo%20Geo/P1010016.jpg
 
smccd
This is great news! Thanks for trying it out.

I wonder if it runs on a NGCD as well as it ran on your CDZ. I have very little doubt that it would, given the hardware similarity between the two systems, but hey, more test machines, the better Smile

BTW, nice Knights of the Round gif there Smile
Edited by smccd on 19. March 2012 20:05
 
Murikov
Yo Seb, thanks for your contributions to the Neo Community! Thumbs Up

I'm sure some people will find a good use of your Dev Kit, I really hope this motivates other ongoing developers to create new titles for our beloved system!
i.imgur.com/aLu1k0m.gif
 
smccd
Murikov wrote:
Yo Seb, thanks for your contributions to the Neo Community! Thumbs Up

I'm sure some people will find a good use of your Dev Kit, I really hope this motivates other ongoing developers to create new titles for our beloved system!


Smile Thank you!

I hope so too. Knowing that a resource like CCD may help developers get over that initial "bump" faster was what motivated me.
 
merlin
I'm glad to help out. I'm sure the game would work on a regular top loader too but like you say it's not a bad idea to test it out. Hopefully someone else here who has a top loader will be able to help. It's very easy to burn NGCD games but if anyone wants to give this a try and needs any help please let me know.

smccd wrote:
BTW, nice Knights of the Round gif there Smile


Thanks. My favourite game! Smile
 
smccd
Sweet Smile It's probably my favourite as well.
It's one of the five games I managed to beat in the arcade with one quarter.
 
RiKo
really nice work smccd Thumbs Up I've always wanted to have a go at writing a simple game for the Neo Geo. Your developers kit looks awesome too. Are you going to keep developing Neo Thunder?

I hope you dont mind but i have a technical question. I read in the Neo geo manual that the Neo Geo uses sprites for *every* graphic on screen - including the background which is made from sprite strips joined together.

My question is, do these background sprite-strips count towards the horizontal sprite limit? (i think it's 96 sprites - the number of sprites you can display on a horizontal line). and if this is the case - if you use multiple playfields (all made from sprite-strips) for parallax scrolling, does this greatly reduce the number of sprites you can display?

I have wondered about this for some time but have had no one to ask!
Edited by RiKo on 20. March 2012 17:52
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Mini-Reviews of ZX Spectrum games : https://iplayzxsp...ress.com//
 
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STE C
hey Merlin I have a top loader NGCD, pm me if you are interested in posting me a copy of game for me to test for our budding programmer, it would be nice to let him know if it does work on top loader as I am sure it will.
Edited by STE C on 20. March 2012 18:04
 
-SD-
smccd wrote:Only briefly have I looked into NGPC as a development platform, a while ago. If I remember correctly, I couldn't find any resources other than assembly-based ones


I've just had a quick look and there is a solution, but it's not free....

According to NGP Dev'rs the NGP uses a Toshiba TLCS-900L processor. There's a Wikipedia page for this family of processors, and it turns out that Toshiba do sell a C Compiler and IDE. The Compiler is part# SW96CN0-ZCC which is $653, and the IDE is part#SW00MN0-ZCC which is a further $670. Bugger.
Beard Complete UK/Euro Clamshell NEO•GEO Pocket Collection Headbang
39 Color & 2 Cover Variations, 5 B&W
 
smccd
RiKo wrote:
really nice work smccd Thumbs Up I've always wanted to have a go at writing a simple game for the Neo Geo. Your developers kit looks awesome too. Are you going to keep developing Neo Thunder?

I hope you dont mind but i have a technical question. I read in the Neo geo manual that the Neo Geo uses sprites for *every* graphic on screen - including the background which is made from sprite strips joined together.

My question is, do these background sprite-strips count towards the horizontal sprite limit? (i think it's 96 sprites - the number of sprites you can display on a horizontal line). and if this is the case - if you use multiple playfields (all made from sprite-strips) for parallax scrolling, does this greatly reduce the number of sprites you can display?

I have wondered about this for some time but have had no one to ask!


I would bet that it does impact the number of sprites you'd have available for actual game objects, yes!

If you think about it, given Neo Geo's horizontal resolution of 320px, and given a sprite width of 16px, you only need 21 ( 320/16 + 1 for the off-screen additional sprite to the right, to allow for smooth scrolling) sprites per playfield. With two background layers (or playfields, as you call them), you'd be at 42 sprites per line. You'd still be left with 54 game object sprites to display on one line. I think the number is generous enough to not require technical magic to reduce the possible game object sprites per line.

Neo Thunder uses a single playfield, and if I recall correctly, I simply show the "star" and "planet" sprites at pre-determined Y positions on the screen, and scroll them to the left every frame.
Edited by smccd on 21. March 2012 01:01
 
RiKo
smccd wrote:- If you think about it, given Neo Geo's horizontal resolution of 320px, and given a sprite width of 16px, you only need 21 ( 320/16 + 1 for the off-screen additional sprite to the right, to allow for smooth scrolling) sprites per playfield. With two background layers (or playfields, as you call them), you'd be at 42 sprites per line. You'd still be left with 54 game object sprites to display on one line. I think the number is generous enough to not require technical magic to reduce the possible game object sprites per line.


ah ok, thank youSmile i thought that would be the case. If you had 3 background layers though (full screen ones) that would be 63 sprites used on the background, which only leaves 36 on each horizontal line, if you add in a boss graphic made up of a number of sprites joined together and firing a huge number of bullets. i suppose it's possible you could be in a bit of trouble then. especially if its a horizontal shooter because you then have the players shots all fired horizontally too.

I have noticed that most Neo games don't use many background layers or if they do they layer them in a clever way to avoid using many sprites. e.g. there is a level in Alpha mission which has 3 levels but the way it is layered means that it doesnt use that many sprites. http://www.youtub...P1As-HnqM0
Mini-Reviews of films I have just watched : http://richwatmov...press.com/
Mini-Reviews of ZX Spectrum games : https://iplayzxsp...ress.com//
 
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smccd
RiKo wrote:
smccd wrote:- If you think about it, given Neo Geo's horizontal resolution of 320px, and given a sprite width of 16px, you only need 21 ( 320/16 + 1 for the off-screen additional sprite to the right, to allow for smooth scrolling) sprites per playfield. With two background layers (or playfields, as you call them), you'd be at 42 sprites per line. You'd still be left with 54 game object sprites to display on one line. I think the number is generous enough to not require technical magic to reduce the possible game object sprites per line.


ah ok, thank youSmile i thought that would be the case. If you had 3 background layers though (full screen ones) that would be 63 sprites used on the background, which only leaves 36 on each horizontal line, if you add in a boss graphic made up of a number of sprites joined together and firing a huge number of bullets. i suppose it's possible you could be in a bit of trouble then. especially if its a horizontal shooter because you then have the players shots all fired horizontally too.

I have noticed that most Neo games don't use many background layers or if they do they layer them in a clever way to avoid using many sprites. e.g. there is a level in Alpha mission which has 3 levels but the way it is layered means that it doesnt use that many sprites. http://www.youtub...P1As-HnqM0


That's exactly right!

During the first few minutes, during the level, I'd say all the background layers combined don't add up to more than 22 sprites per line. The "top" two layers blend seamlessly, so there's no overlap. The "bottom" layer has to blend with the more inner of the "top" layers, so that's 1 overlapped sprite on both left and right side. That's 20 sprites + 2 overlapped ones = 22. There's no need for the extra "off-screen" sprite, because the scrolling is downwards, and not left to right.

During the boss fight, we have about 20 sprites for the "bottom" (landscape) layer. Then another at most 20 sprites for the boss and his base. Still leaves 56 sprites for bullets, ships, lasers, which I think is enough! Smile
Edited by smccd on 21. March 2012 15:44
 
RiKo
Thanks very much for helping me out smccd. really good to learn all this.

i do have just one more quick question if you dont mind, how do you do collision-detection on the Neo geo between sprites? is there built in collision detection in hardware for collision-detection on sprites? ( i know some consoles/computers have this) , and if there isn't - do you do bounding-box collisions and/or pixel-perfect collision detection? whats the usual approach?
Mini-Reviews of films I have just watched : http://richwatmov...press.com/
Mini-Reviews of ZX Spectrum games : https://iplayzxsp...ress.com//
 
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smccd
RiKo wrote:
Thanks very much for helping me out smccd. really good to learn all this.

i do have just one more quick question if you dont mind, how do you do collision-detection on the Neo geo between sprites? is there built in collision detection in hardware for collision-detection on sprites? ( i know some consoles/computers have this) , and if there isn't - do you do bounding-box collisions and/or pixel-perfect collision detection? whats the usual approach?


You're very welcome.

As far as I can tell, there is no built-in collision detection functionality. The approach you should take depends on how the game you're developing feels. I always use bounding box, because my games are generally very simple. However, I accept that for more complex collision you need to do pixel-perfect.

As with everything else in software, you have to consider effort and gain for everything you do Smile
 
RiKo
I think bounding box collisions are fine for schmups esp since you always use a hit box for the player anyway. Thanks for all the help. Interesting there is no hardware support. i wouldnt be surprised if inefficient collision detection algotithms are responsible for most of the slowdown seen in some neo geo games. because if you write them poorly you can be doing a lot of unnecessary checks.
Edited by RiKo on 24. March 2012 18:57
Mini-Reviews of films I have just watched : http://richwatmov...press.com/
Mini-Reviews of ZX Spectrum games : https://iplayzxsp...ress.com//
 
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-SD- wrote:
smccd wrote:Only briefly have I looked into NGPC as a development platform, a while ago. If I remember correctly, I couldn't find any resources other than assembly-based ones


I've just had a quick look and there is a solution, but it's not free....

According to NGP Dev'rs the NGP uses a Toshiba TLCS-900L processor. There's a Wikipedia page for this family of processors, and it turns out that Toshiba do sell a C Compiler and IDE. The Compiler is part# SW96CN0-ZCC which is $653, and the IDE is part#SW00MN0-ZCC which is a further $670. Bugger.


First of all, I'm pretty impressed with the Neo Thunder MVS/AES/CD homebrew. I'm always excited when I see new homebrew come out for the Neo systems.

I would be REALLY excited if this (or really anything new by a new author) came out for the NGPC. That would be awesome. So, let's get to the compiler issue.

It is true that the only easy to find development tool for the NGPC is an assembler. I totally understand that people don't want to start their NGPC coding with ASM.

However, for many years, the NGPC devkit has been available if you know who to ask or where to look. It has a C compiler, so it's much more desirable for guys like you.

This situation really needs to change, and a good compiler/devkit needs to be available to anyone that goes looking for one. That's probably one of the reasons that NGPC development hasn't been more active over the years.

I know that there were a few people (including myself) that were working this problem lately, but progress has been slow. We want to come up with a new compiler that would be a bit more modern than the old NGPC devkit. It just hasn't happened yet.

For now, though, if anyone is interested in NGPC development, try to get ahold of me, Thor (http://thor.pdroms.de/), or join the following mailing list and start asking questions.

http://games.grou...p/ngpcdev/
Card Fighters' Clash 2 English Translation
NGPC Flash Cart and Linker Project
Avatar art thanks to Trev-Mun.
 
http://ngpc.freeplaytech.com/
smccd
Ah, thanks for the info! I have found your group a while ago, and I found the nifty Neo Tile editor there.

I am currently working on a NGPC game. Game logic is about 90% done (needs some balancing), sound is 0%, and graphics are 50%. It is a Neo Geo-themed sandbox game.

Stay tuned.
 
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