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Thread Author: priest
Thread ID: 3385
Thread Info
There are 49 posts in this thread, and it has been viewed 9589 times.  There's also files attached.
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Medals and ranks withdrawn from members
priest
Im sad to have to start this thread.
I have after long consideration decided to withdraw the medals and ranks in the Highscorechallenge for "OHA" and "The Stray". This is due to them being caught cheating not one but several times to achieve their scores. Methods have been used to boost their own scores which isnt allowed according to the rules of the HSC.

Ive done this so other members dedicated to playing the HSC games according to the rules dont feel that others have had unjust advantages.

Anyone entering the HSC is obligated to follow the rules dictated from the start. Failure to do so and caught cheating will automatically lead to withdrawal of all medals in the future.

The HSC was started so that we could compete amongst us NGFL members and even trigger our selves into getting better at the games we play. No prices are involved, just honor and a IRL non existing medal. So I cant really understand why someone would even try to cheat, whats the purpose?!

Anyone having problems accepting MY decision come to me with your questions.

With this said I hope to see you all in the HSC one time or another, everyones welcomeSmile

//Daniel
img102.imageshack.us/img102/9359/lastsuppersnkhz7.gif

i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/huwuno/userpriest.png

Used with the kind permission from their creator "Shiny"

img339.imageshack.us/img339/6738/1032017122.th.jpg
 
http://www.motalaarkadhall.se/
priest
Ive removed the medals and started to set the scoreboards / hall of fame straight but it will take some time, so please have patience with me...
img102.imageshack.us/img102/9359/lastsuppersnkhz7.gif

i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/huwuno/userpriest.png

Used with the kind permission from their creator "Shiny"

img339.imageshack.us/img339/6738/1032017122.th.jpg
 
http://www.motalaarkadhall.se/
merlin
I just wanted to say that I fully agree with Priest on this issue. It's sad that it had to come to this but I think it's completely fair. If scores are allowed to stand from people who have on more than one occasion submitted fake scores then it undermines the whole thing and isn't fair on others taking part. Thanks for sorting this out Priest.
i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/merlin196/Video%20Games/perseval-6.gif
 
Tobalman
I'm disappointed...
 
http://www.youtube.com/1sttobalman
LIFE_IN_2D
Awesome, hopefully this will encourage more members to compete in HSC .
i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy86/sevenheadedunicorn/sig-1.jpg

shot in the eye
shot in the brain
shot in the ass...
 
priest
Merlin: Thanks.

Yea its not brightest thread in the history of NGFL but still something had to be done. Cheating should never pay off.

Tobalman: Please explain your disapointment, ist it against me or the reason I started this thread?

2D: Yup thats the effect Im hoping for, thanks for the support

Beard
img102.imageshack.us/img102/9359/lastsuppersnkhz7.gif

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Used with the kind permission from their creator "Shiny"

img339.imageshack.us/img339/6738/1032017122.th.jpg
 
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Loris Biaggi
LIFE_IN_2D wrote:
Awesome, hopefully this will encourage more members to compete in HSC .


I agree this is the reason (or one reason) why not so much people join HSC.
When you suspect some scores are made cheating, it's not the best environment to play honestly and for fun.

I propose to even delete some old scores made by people no more active on NGFL... because i'm sure there are a lot made cheating by casual members.
------------- Neo Mini Box -----------
imageshack.us/a/img832/3766/qyg.gif
 
priest
Virtual Boy: OHA and The Stray was caught, there might be others but the question is how far should we go? should we delete all the scores and start from scratch or what?

Whats Kaz opinion in this whole ordeal?

What do you guys think of the "hall of fame" thread, is there any interest in keeping i or should I delete it?
Edited by priest on 30. June 2011 08:58
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Used with the kind permission from their creator "Shiny"

img339.imageshack.us/img339/6738/1032017122.th.jpg
 
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Bullet
I think if there is any doubt about the legitimacy of the scores, you need to start over from scratch , for them to have any real value or meaning to those participating.
i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/Bulletsonnet/opr00FUJ.gif
 
merlin
priest wrote:
Virtual Boy: OHA and The Stray was caught, there might be others but the question is how far should we go? should we delete all the scores and start from scratch or what?
should I delete it?


Bullet wrote:
I think if there is any doubt about the legitimacy of the scores, you need to start over from scratch , for them to have any real value or meaning to those participating.


Just a suggestion but maybe it would be a good idea to change the rules so that only these entries are acceptable from now on:

The game is played on MVS/AES/NGCD/PS2 etc. and a photo (or video) is included as evidence.

The game is played using the Wolfmame emulator and the accompanying input file is sent to Priest as evidence. Wolfmame is a build of Mame often used for high score challenges. As far as I'm aware cheating is impossible.

A video of the high score run is shown as evidence. I really mean the type of videos that Tobalman made for his high scores since regular emulated gameplay videos could be made using save states.

Rather than starting the whole thing from scratch Priest you could just remove scores which don't comply with those rules including all scores where someone just wrote the number without any evidence and also scores like mine with accompanying emulated screenshots.

I have to admit I do worry a bit if maybe someone might doubt some of my scores particularly for World Heroes 2, World Heroes Perfect and Ghost Pilots. I promise all my scores are legitimate and am happy for them to all be removed if the rules are changed.

priest wrote:
What do you guys think of the "hall of fame" thread, is there any interest in keeping i or should I delete it?


Personally I like the idea of a hall of fame thread Priest. If it's adding quite a bit to your workload though then we can of course manage without it.
Edited by merlin on 30. June 2011 13:31
i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/merlin196/Video%20Games/perseval-6.gif
 
Loris Biaggi
merlin wrote:I have to admit I do worry a bit if maybe someone might doubt some of my scores particularly for World Heroes 2, World Heroes Perfect and Ghost Pilots. I promise all my scores are legitimate and am happy for them to all be removed if the rules are changed.


I'm sure no one have a doubt about you Wink

I remember someone talked about the "video" possibility, but i agree with those (priest?) who said that this HSC is good because is for people who likes to play and share scores, not for extreme semi-professional players.
I think i won't make any score if i have to record a video, because i'm lazy and i don't want to use a camera every time i play.

I said we can maybe delete all old scores from almost unknown or inactive players, because there are a lot of scores like: "unknownmember: game finished, onegazillionpoints".
And this discourage any try to make a score...
------------- Neo Mini Box -----------
imageshack.us/a/img832/3766/qyg.gif
 
LIFE_IN_2D
Random, unorganized thoughts/suggestions:

All confirmed cheaters (for ANY GAMES) should be stripped of ALL their metals. If they are that great it should be easy for them to get them back.

I think it's good to remove ( or at least question) the validity of ridiculous scores. Of course there are some people who are genuinely phenominal at certain games. Its usually evident when somebody is at a high level, because they can provide really in depth strategy for the game if necessary.

Once a member has like 100 medals, I think it's pretty clear that this person is cheating. It's near impossible to be that good at so many games, IMO.

IMO, emulators should not be allowed anymore. It really sucks to have to suggest this. Unfortunately, I think it would remedy some of the cheat problems, it's just too easy to cheat on an emulator.

As for the hall of fame. I think it's a great idea. So if you enjoy doing it, Priest, do it. I'm for anything that brings life to this site.

Everything I'm suggesting has one goal in mind, to make HSC what it was intended to be: Fun, honest, competition among friends.

Hopefully more people will get involved and people wont have the need to cheat after all this dirty business.
Edited by LIFE_IN_2D on 30. June 2011 14:51
i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy86/sevenheadedunicorn/sig-1.jpg

shot in the eye
shot in the brain
shot in the ass...
 
merlin
Virtual Boy wrote:
merlin wrote:I have to admit I do worry a bit if maybe someone might doubt some of my scores particularly for World Heroes 2, World Heroes Perfect and Ghost Pilots. I promise all my scores are legitimate and am happy for them to all be removed if the rules are changed.


I'm sure no one have a doubt about you Wink

I remember someone talked about the "video" possibility, but i agree with those (priest?) who said that this HSC is good because is for people who likes to play and share scores, not for extreme semi-professional players.
I think i won't make any score if i have to record a video, because i'm lazy and i don't want to use a camera every time i play.

I said we can maybe delete all old scores from almost unknown or inactive players, because there are a lot of scores like: "unknownmember: game finished, onegazillionpoints".
And this discourage any try to make a score...


Thanks that's reassuring Virtual Boy. Smile

I can understand your views. My suggestions would make it more like the high score challenges at neo-geo.com and perhaps there's a danger fewer people would take part. I really meant a video as just one possible way of showing evidence. You could for example just play the game on MVS and take a quick photo of the high score table.

LIFE_IN_2D wrote:
IMO, emulators should not be allowed anymore. It really sucks to have to suggest this. Unfortunately, I think it would remedy some of the cheat problems, it's just too easy to cheat on an emulator.


I agree with everything you said 2D except this. Wolfmame is used at MARP, Twin Galaxies, neo-geo.com etc. and as far as I'm aware cheating is impossible. People posting scores played on Wolfmame need to also submit the input file and possibly also the .wlf file as evidence.

I really feel changing the rules is the best idea since it's always possible we get might new people joining who are willing to cheat.

I'd be interested to hear what Neo Geo Man thinks about this since he's one of the most active participants and also takes part in the challenges at neo-geo.com.
i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss13/merlin196/Video%20Games/perseval-6.gif
 
LIFE_IN_2D
merlin wrote:

LIFE_IN_2D wrote:
IMO, emulators should not be allowed anymore. It really sucks to have to suggest this. Unfortunately, I think it would remedy some of the cheat problems, it's just too easy to cheat on an emulator.


I agree with everything you said 2D except this. Wolfmame is used at MARP, Twin Galaxies, neo-geo.com etc. and as far as I'm aware cheating is impossible. People posting scores played on Wolfmame need to also submit the input file and possibly also the .wlf file as evidence.

I really feel changing the rules is the best idea since it's always possible we get might new people joining who are willing to cheat.

I'd be interested to hear what Neo Geo Man thinks about this since he's one of the most active participants and also takes part in the challenges at neo-geo.com.


I had no idea such an emulator ( a cheat proof one) existed. I was referring to "common" emulators such as Kawaks, Mame and FBA -- all of which make it easy to use cheats and save states.

But yeah, Wolfmame seems like a great way for emulation to be used in HSC. This way members can still enter a HSC for games they don't own in the form of cart or CD.
i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy86/sevenheadedunicorn/sig-1.jpg

shot in the eye
shot in the brain
shot in the ass...
 
Murikov
Even if we only allow cheat-proof emulators, there's still Unibios and other modifications for the original Hardware. I don't think it is possible to establish 100% cheat-free conditions, unfortunately.

IMO we should limit the rules to certain conditions, for example the same emulator and evidence for all HSC games, etc. But too much restrictions aren't good as well, we have to find a sane solution that doesn't require too much efforts to participate. Above all, it's also a matter of honor not to cheat and to post one's scores truthfully.
i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x434/Murikov/SNK%20stuff/SNK_zps13025fff.gif
 
reelmojo
Do we really need anti-cheating procedures? There is no prize for winning a HSC other than a sense of accomplishment, which you don't get if you cheat. And eliminating the use of emulators would severely cut down on entries. I have entered a few times in the past and I plan to enter more, but if I have to own the game that leaves me with a very limited supply of games I can enter. For example, I have a medal for Andro Dunos which has never been ported to consoles other than the AES. I like the game, but I would never spend the $200+ for it.

Personally I think we should just leave it on the honor system like it is. If you cheat and get caught everyone gets to call you a douche bag for eternity. Because as sad as it is to cheat in a competition with no prize, getting caught cheating in a competition that doesn't require proof is even sadder.

Oh, and if we change the emulator rules to require Wolfmame, I'll still enter but I think having to download a new emulator and set it all up might discourage some people. Remember, we're trying to get more people to enter, not less.
 
RiKo
I always take photos when i get a high score but i rarely post them - only if someone questioned my score (which has never happened) or if i get an unusually good score.

I actually think the HSC was fine as it was - but i think only people who have been posting in the forum regularly should be able to enter. Maybe Stray And OHA joined just because of the HSC. i dont know if they did but but how we can trust people who join up and then pretty much just enter the HSC? they could be anyone.

if someone like Merlin or Boogie for example enters the HSC i *know* they are going to be honest but i would be worried if NeoPlayer4Evar joined up and then got top scores on every game!

if we have to make videos it would just put people off entering. (too much effort!) even taking a photo and uploading it - is asking for quite a lot of effort
Edited by RiKo on 30. June 2011 19:15
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Tobalman
priest wrote:
Merlin: Thanks.

Yea its not brightest thread in the history of NGFL but still something had to be done. Cheating should never pay off.

Tobalman: Please explain your disapointment, ist it against me or the reason I started this thread?

2D: Yup thats the effect Im hoping for, thanks for the support

Beard


As you may remember, I stuck up for S when the scandal broke. I did so, naturally, thinking it was an isolated, one-time incedent. As I recall, the discrepency was over one game, MS2, I believe. It looks like my good faith (in S) was a mistake... I'm disappointed in both members caught.
 
http://www.youtube.com/1sttobalman
The eccentric cat
I'm thinking maybe photo's should be mandatory now? It would clear any of the issues up, and we won't have to exclude emulators, or certain members.
Without love, the truth cannot be seen.
 
candycab
Just my 2c forwhatever its worth Smile

I agree with what Mojo is saying in that the honor system should be enough since you are definitely going to come out looking like a douche, that should be enough for anyone who really wants to be a member in good standing here on the forums. I would also say bearing that in mind make it very clear that cheating will be tolerated as much as theft would be from another forum member and will result in an immediate and permanent ban.

If members aren't willing to be a person of their "word" then I don't see where they offer any thing of value to the forums here or elsewhere.
Edited by candycab on 30. June 2011 23:41
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