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Medals and ranks withdrawn from members
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| priest |
Posted on 29. June 2011 23:54
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High priest of NGFL
Posts: 4218
Joined: 06/27/2007 16:17
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I´m sad to have to start this thread.
I have after long consideration decided to withdraw the medals and ranks in the Highscorechallenge for "OHA" and "The Stray". This is due to them being caught cheating not one but several times to achieve their scores. Methods have been used to boost their own scores which isn´t allowed according to the rules of the HSC.
I´ve done this so other members dedicated to playing the HSC games according to the rules don´t feel that others have had unjust advantages.
Anyone entering the HSC is obligated to follow the rules dictated from the start. Failure to do so and caught cheating will automatically lead to withdrawal of all medals in the future.
The HSC was started so that we could compete amongst us NGFL members and even trigger our selves into getting better at the games we play. No prices are involved, just honor and a IRL non existing medal. So I can´t really understand why someone would even try to cheat, whats the purpose?!
Anyone having problems accepting MY decision come to me with your questions.
With this said I hope to see you all in the HSC one time or another, everyones welcome
//Daniel
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| priest |
Posted on 30. June 2011 00:35
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High priest of NGFL
Posts: 4218
Joined: 06/27/2007 16:17
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I´ve removed the medals and started to set the scoreboards / hall of fame straight but it will take some time, so please have patience with me...
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| merlin |
Posted on 30. June 2011 00:50
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NeoGeoForLife!
Posts: 3011
Joined: 01/22/2007 09:41
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I just wanted to say that I fully agree with Priest on this issue. It's sad that it had to come to this but I think it's completely fair. If scores are allowed to stand from people who have on more than one occasion submitted fake scores then it undermines the whole thing and isn't fair on others taking part. Thanks for sorting this out Priest.
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| Tobalman |
Posted on 30. June 2011 01:50
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Magician Lord
Posts: 905
Joined: 07/11/2007 16:44
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I'm disappointed...
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| LIFE_IN_2D |
Posted on 30. June 2011 02:52
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NeoGeoForLife!
  
Posts: 1269
Joined: 03/13/2008 15:05
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Awesome, hopefully this will encourage more members to compete in HSC .
shot in the eye
shot in the brain
shot in the ass...
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| priest |
Posted on 30. June 2011 08:23
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High priest of NGFL
Posts: 4218
Joined: 06/27/2007 16:17
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Merlin: Thanks.
Yea its not brightest thread in the history of NGFL but still something had to be done. Cheating should never pay off.
Tobalman: Please explain your disapointment, ist it against me or the reason I started this thread?
2D: Yup thats the effect I´m hoping for, thanks for the support
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| Loris Biaggi |
Posted on 30. June 2011 08:38
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Southtown Guardian
 
Posts: 165
Joined: 12/15/2010 16:52
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LIFE_IN_2D wrote:
Awesome, hopefully this will encourage more members to compete in HSC .
I agree this is the reason (or one reason) why not so much people join HSC.
When you suspect some scores are made cheating, it's not the best environment to play honestly and for fun.
I propose to even delete some old scores made by people no more active on NGFL... because i'm sure there are a lot made cheating by casual members.
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| priest |
Posted on 30. June 2011 08:44
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High priest of NGFL
Posts: 4218
Joined: 06/27/2007 16:17
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Virtual Boy: OHA and The Stray was caught, there might be others but the question is how far should we go? should we delete all the scores and start from scratch or what?
What´s Kaz opinion in this whole ordeal?
What do you guys think of the "hall of fame" thread, is there any interest in keeping i or should I delete it?
Edited by priest on 30. June 2011 08:58
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| Bullet |
Posted on 30. June 2011 11:24
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Marked by the Wolf!
Posts: 552
Joined: 07/26/2007 22:40
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I think if there is any doubt about the legitimacy of the scores, you need to start over from scratch , for them to have any real value or meaning to those participating.
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| merlin |
Posted on 30. June 2011 13:23
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NeoGeoForLife!
Posts: 3011
Joined: 01/22/2007 09:41
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priest wrote:
Virtual Boy: OHA and The Stray was caught, there might be others but the question is how far should we go? should we delete all the scores and start from scratch or what?
should I delete it?
Bullet wrote:
I think if there is any doubt about the legitimacy of the scores, you need to start over from scratch , for them to have any real value or meaning to those participating.
Just a suggestion but maybe it would be a good idea to change the rules so that only these entries are acceptable from now on:
The game is played on MVS/AES/NGCD/PS2 etc. and a photo (or video) is included as evidence.
The game is played using the Wolfmame emulator and the accompanying input file is sent to Priest as evidence. Wolfmame is a build of Mame often used for high score challenges. As far as I'm aware cheating is impossible.
A video of the high score run is shown as evidence. I really mean the type of videos that Tobalman made for his high scores since regular emulated gameplay videos could be made using save states.
Rather than starting the whole thing from scratch Priest you could just remove scores which don't comply with those rules including all scores where someone just wrote the number without any evidence and also scores like mine with accompanying emulated screenshots.
I have to admit I do worry a bit if maybe someone might doubt some of my scores particularly for World Heroes 2, World Heroes Perfect and Ghost Pilots. I promise all my scores are legitimate and am happy for them to all be removed if the rules are changed.
priest wrote:
What do you guys think of the "hall of fame" thread, is there any interest in keeping i or should I delete it?
Personally I like the idea of a hall of fame thread Priest. If it's adding quite a bit to your workload though then we can of course manage without it.
Edited by merlin on 30. June 2011 13:31
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| Loris Biaggi |
Posted on 30. June 2011 14:27
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Southtown Guardian
Posts: 165
Joined: 12/15/2010 16:52
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merlin wrote:I have to admit I do worry a bit if maybe someone might doubt some of my scores particularly for World Heroes 2, World Heroes Perfect and Ghost Pilots. I promise all my scores are legitimate and am happy for them to all be removed if the rules are changed.
I'm sure no one have a doubt about you 
I remember someone talked about the "video" possibility, but i agree with those (priest?) who said that this HSC is good because is for people who likes to play and share scores, not for extreme semi-professional players.
I think i won't make any score if i have to record a video, because i'm lazy and i don't want to use a camera every time i play.
I said we can maybe delete all old scores from almost unknown or inactive players, because there are a lot of scores like: "unknownmember: game finished, onegazillionpoints".
And this discourage any try to make a score...
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| LIFE_IN_2D |
Posted on 30. June 2011 14:33
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NeoGeoForLife!
Posts: 1269
Joined: 03/13/2008 15:05
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Random, unorganized thoughts/suggestions:
All confirmed cheaters (for ANY GAMES) should be stripped of ALL their metals. If they are that great it should be “easy” for them to get them back.
I think it's good to remove ( or at least question) the validity of ridiculous scores. Of course there are some people who are genuinely phenominal at certain games. It’s usually evident when somebody is at a high level, because they can provide really in depth strategy for the game if necessary.
Once a member has like 100 medals, I think it's pretty clear that this person is cheating. It's near impossible to be that good at so many games, IMO.
IMO, emulators should not be allowed anymore. It really sucks to have to suggest this. Unfortunately, I think it would remedy some of the cheat problems, it's just too easy to cheat on an emulator.
As for the hall of fame. I think it's a great idea. So if you enjoy doing it, Priest, do it. I'm for anything that brings life to this site.
Everything I'm suggesting has one goal in mind, to make HSC what it was intended to be: Fun, honest, competition among friends.
Hopefully more people will get involved and people won’t have the need to cheat after all this dirty business.
Edited by LIFE_IN_2D on 30. June 2011 14:51
shot in the eye
shot in the brain
shot in the ass...
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| merlin |
Posted on 30. June 2011 14:57
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NeoGeoForLife!
Posts: 3011
Joined: 01/22/2007 09:41
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Virtual Boy wrote:
merlin wrote:I have to admit I do worry a bit if maybe someone might doubt some of my scores particularly for World Heroes 2, World Heroes Perfect and Ghost Pilots. I promise all my scores are legitimate and am happy for them to all be removed if the rules are changed.
I'm sure no one have a doubt about you
I remember someone talked about the "video" possibility, but i agree with those (priest?) who said that this HSC is good because is for people who likes to play and share scores, not for extreme semi-professional players.
I think i won't make any score if i have to record a video, because i'm lazy and i don't want to use a camera every time i play.
I said we can maybe delete all old scores from almost unknown or inactive players, because there are a lot of scores like: "unknownmember: game finished, onegazillionpoints".
And this discourage any try to make a score...
Thanks that's reassuring Virtual Boy.
I can understand your views. My suggestions would make it more like the high score challenges at neo-geo.com and perhaps there's a danger fewer people would take part. I really meant a video as just one possible way of showing evidence. You could for example just play the game on MVS and take a quick photo of the high score table.
LIFE_IN_2D wrote:
IMO, emulators should not be allowed anymore. It really sucks to have to suggest this. Unfortunately, I think it would remedy some of the cheat problems, it's just too easy to cheat on an emulator.
I agree with everything you said 2D except this. Wolfmame is used at MARP, Twin Galaxies, neo-geo.com etc. and as far as I'm aware cheating is impossible. People posting scores played on Wolfmame need to also submit the input file and possibly also the .wlf file as evidence.
I really feel changing the rules is the best idea since it's always possible we get might new people joining who are willing to cheat.
I'd be interested to hear what Neo Geo Man thinks about this since he's one of the most active participants and also takes part in the challenges at neo-geo.com.
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| LIFE_IN_2D |
Posted on 30. June 2011 15:04
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NeoGeoForLife!
Posts: 1269
Joined: 03/13/2008 15:05
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merlin wrote:
LIFE_IN_2D wrote:
IMO, emulators should not be allowed anymore. It really sucks to have to suggest this. Unfortunately, I think it would remedy some of the cheat problems, it's just too easy to cheat on an emulator.
I agree with everything you said 2D except this. Wolfmame is used at MARP, Twin Galaxies, neo-geo.com etc. and as far as I'm aware cheating is impossible. People posting scores played on Wolfmame need to also submit the input file and possibly also the .wlf file as evidence.
I really feel changing the rules is the best idea since it's always possible we get might new people joining who are willing to cheat.
I'd be interested to hear what Neo Geo Man thinks about this since he's one of the most active participants and also takes part in the challenges at neo-geo.com.
I had no idea such an emulator ( a cheat proof one) existed. I was referring to "common" emulators such as Kawaks, Mame and FBA -- all of which make it easy to use cheats and save states.
But yeah, Wolfmame seems like a great way for emulation to be used in HSC. This way members can still enter a HSC for games they don't own in the form of cart or CD.
shot in the eye
shot in the brain
shot in the ass...
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| Murikov |
Posted on 30. June 2011 15:44
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Magician Lord
Posts: 870
Joined: 05/20/2010 21:17
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Even if we only allow cheat-proof emulators, there's still Unibios and other modifications for the original Hardware. I don't think it is possible to establish 100% cheat-free conditions, unfortunately.
IMO we should limit the rules to certain conditions, for example the same emulator and evidence for all HSC games, etc. But too much restrictions aren't good as well, we have to find a sane solution that doesn't require too much efforts to participate. Above all, it's also a matter of honor not to cheat and to post one's scores truthfully.
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| reelmojo |
Posted on 30. June 2011 18:34
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NeoGeoForLife!
Posts: 1595
Joined: 08/04/2008 16:57
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Do we really need anti-cheating procedures? There is no prize for winning a HSC other than a sense of accomplishment, which you don't get if you cheat. And eliminating the use of emulators would severely cut down on entries. I have entered a few times in the past and I plan to enter more, but if I have to own the game that leaves me with a very limited supply of games I can enter. For example, I have a medal for Andro Dunos which has never been ported to consoles other than the AES. I like the game, but I would never spend the $200+ for it.
Personally I think we should just leave it on the honor system like it is. If you cheat and get caught everyone gets to call you a douche bag for eternity. Because as sad as it is to cheat in a competition with no prize, getting caught cheating in a competition that doesn't require proof is even sadder.
Oh, and if we change the emulator rules to require Wolfmame, I'll still enter but I think having to download a new emulator and set it all up might discourage some people. Remember, we're trying to get more people to enter, not less.
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| RiKo |
Posted on 30. June 2011 19:15
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NeoGeoForLife!
Posts: 3394
Joined: 08/24/2008 22:32
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I always take photos when i get a high score but i rarely post them - only if someone questioned my score (which has never happened) or if i get an unusually good score.
I actually think the HSC was fine as it was - but i think only people who have been posting in the forum regularly should be able to enter. Maybe Stray And OHA joined just because of the HSC. i dont know if they did but but how we can trust people who join up and then pretty much just enter the HSC? they could be anyone.
if someone like Merlin or Boogie for example enters the HSC i *know* they are going to be honest but i would be worried if NeoPlayer4Evar joined up and then got top scores on every game!
if we have to make videos it would just put people off entering. (too much effort!) even taking a photo and uploading it - is asking for quite a lot of effort
Edited by RiKo on 30. June 2011 19:15
Mini-Reviews of films I have just watched : http://richwatmov...press.com/
"There's a guy on Geometry Wars. I can't remember his Gamertag, but his score is far above anyone else in the world, and it makes me think this person doesn't have a life, doesn't work, and is completely and sickly addicted to this one game."
Peter Moore (then CVP at Microsoft) |
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| Tobalman |
Posted on 30. June 2011 23:12
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Magician Lord
Posts: 905
Joined: 07/11/2007 16:44
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priest wrote:
Merlin: Thanks.
Yea its not brightest thread in the history of NGFL but still something had to be done. Cheating should never pay off.
Tobalman: Please explain your disapointment, ist it against me or the reason I started this thread?
2D: Yup thats the effect I´m hoping for, thanks for the support
As you may remember, I stuck up for S when the scandal broke. I did so, naturally, thinking it was an isolated, one-time incedent. As I recall, the discrepency was over one game, MS2, I believe. It looks like my good faith (in S) was a mistake... I'm disappointed in both members caught.
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| The eccentric cat |
Posted on 30. June 2011 23:12
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Metal Slug
Posts: 712
Joined: 03/16/2008 06:05
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I'm thinking maybe photo's should be mandatory now? It would clear any of the issues up, and we won't have to exclude emulators, or certain members.
Without love, the truth cannot be seen.
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| candycab |
Posted on 30. June 2011 23:37
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NeoGeoForLife!
Posts: 1185
Joined: 11/25/2006 00:45
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Just my 2c forwhatever its worth
I agree with what Mojo is saying in that the honor system should be enough since you are definitely going to come out looking like a douche, that should be enough for anyone who really wants to be a member in good standing here on the forums. I would also say bearing that in mind make it very clear that cheating will be tolerated as much as theft would be from another forum member and will result in an immediate and permanent ban.
If members aren't willing to be a person of their "word" then I don't see where they offer any thing of value to the forums here or elsewhere.
Edited by candycab on 30. June 2011 23:41
I spent most of the eighties, most of my life, riding around in somebody else's car, in possession of, or ingested of, something illegal, on my way from something illegal to something illegal with many illegal things happening all around me.
James Newell Osterberg, Jr
"Last screw is hidden under a warranty-voiding sticker. Darn, cant return this thing to the store - guess Ill just have to make a laptop out of it!"
Ben Heck on PS3 Slim |
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