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Thread Author: 1983parrothead
Thread ID: 3350
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There are 7 posts in this thread, and it has been viewed 3544 times.
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Konami fighting games
1983parrothead
I noticed that Konami not only helped popularize the fighting genre for Capcom to hear it, but they also made a ton of fighting games. Most of them failed to compete against major franchises like the Street Fighter series and the Virtua Fighter series, and became quite forgotten.

I created the Wikipedia template for them, but I'm not sure if it needs a few Track & Field titles, due to containing fencing and tae kwon do (especially Track & Field II). Some articles on some Konami fighting games need more work.

What most people appreciate the most are Yie Ar Kung-Fu (especially the arcade version), TMNT: Tournament Fighters and I guess Castlevania Judgement.

What deserves more appreciation in my opinion are Galactic Warriors (one of the most innovative pre-SFII fighting games), Dragoon Might (one of merlin's favorites), Rakugakids (perhaps the first 2.5D fighting game) and I guess Lightning Legend (Konami's first 3D fighting game).


What all have you played and what all you are looking forward to playing?
 
NeoGeoNinja
BACK ON THE ANTI CAPCOM/SF2...
subject again are we? Regardless...

Fighting games made by Konami that I have really enjoyed would include TMNT Tournament Fighters on SNES and the average but enjoyable Kensei Sacred Fist for PS1. Both were great but nothing genre defining... unlike SF2 Wink

So, the problem with TMNT Tournament Fighters as far as I was concerned was not in the playability. In fact, everything about that game was great: playability, music, GFX etc. Top notch all round. What the game DID fall down on was the roster. Considering the legendary potential this fighter could have had, outside of the Turtles themselves and the legendary Shredder, the roster was really lacking. I had been a fan of the Turtles in my youth, but really couldn't place many of the obscurities: Armaggon, War, Chrome Dome, Aska etc. Where the f*ck were Rocksteady, Bebop, Splinter, Casey Jones or even a foot soldier for christs sake. Never played the MD version, although I know it had Casey in it Wink

As for Konami's failings regarding Kensei? Whilst the makings were promising, again, the game failed to deliver on ALL fronts. It looks average, plays below average (I would say) has REALLY generic character types and, well, the only thing going for it imo is the kick-ass soundtrack. It's REALLY good. Doesn't save the game, but makes it massively more enjoyable imo. SEGA's VF, Namco's TKN and Tecmo's DOA literally destroyed Konami's effort.

Always wanted to try Battle Tryst though, probably due to it running on M2 hardware...

Ninja
i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/NeoGeoNinja/NGNsignatureRev1.jpg
 
1983parrothead
NeoGeoNinja wrote:
BACK ON THE ANTI CAPCOM/SF2...
subject again are we? Regardless...

Fighting games made by Konami that I have really enjoyed would include TMNT Tournament Fighters on SNES and the average but enjoyable Kensei Sacred Fist for PS1. Both were great but nothing genre defining... unlike SF2 Wink


Well, not really part of the "SF2 VS. every other fighting game" topic, it's just that I said that some of them sadly didn't qualify as high as highly rated ones by other companies. I also felt bored and became curious about your opinions on Konami's fighting game library.

NeoGeoNinja wrote:So, the problem with TMNT Tournament Fighters as far as I was concerned was not in the playability. In fact, everything about that game was great: playability, music, GFX etc. Top notch all round. What the game DID fall down on was the roster. Considering the legendary potential this fighter could have had, outside of the Turtles themselves and the legendary Shredder, the roster was really lacking. I had been a fan of the Turtles in my youth, but really couldn't place many of the obscurities: Armaggon, War, Chrome Dome, Aska etc. Where the f*ck were Rocksteady, Bebop, Splinter, Casey Jones or even a foot soldier for christs sake. Never played the MD version, although I know it had Casey in it Wink


I'm pretty sure that an unbalanced roster is the most common flaw in fighting games. This JewWario video (and the externally linked PART 2) even mentions "balance".

The three TMNT: Tournament Fighters games themselves have mostly characters not only from the 1987 animated series, but also the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Adventures comics published by Archie Comics, and only one character (Karai in the SNES version) from the ORIGINAL series: the 1984 Mirage Comics. Many people don't realize that the 1987 TMNT is made the same way as the cartoon shows and films based on video games (e.g. Double Dragon, Street Fighter) and not-so child-friendly films (e.g. RoboCop, Rambo & the Force of Freedom). I'm talking about the ones shown by YouTube user "theswitcher", who's account is now disabled. The cartoon show and film creators took the source material and refine them to fit a certain standard or preference of theirs: by replacing serious content with zany stuff that are considered by several people awful things.

NeoGeoNinja wrote:As for Konami's failings regarding Kensei? Whilst the makings were promising, again, the game failed to deliver on ALL fronts. It looks average, plays below average (I would say) has REALLY generic character types and, well, the only thing going for it imo is the kick-ass soundtrack. It's REALLY good. Doesn't save the game, but makes it massively more enjoyable imo. SEGA's VF, Namco's TKN and Tecmo's DOA literally destroyed Konami's effort.

Always wanted to try Battle Tryst though, probably due to it running on M2 hardware...

Ninja



I showed a list of some 3D and some 2.5D fighting games to YouTube user Plexosolarasolas to see if he could perform combo videos of them, and he said "there are a lot with very good potential", and I only heard him mention three examples: Ninku, Battle Tryst and Heaven's Gate. He also said "However, on the other hand, some of them are worthless on the combo department (FIST). And there are some that i didn't know about, so thanks to let me know them!"

Some of Konami's fighting games were shown in RacketBoy's Best Undiscovered 2D Fighting Games list.
Edited by 1983parrothead on 06. June 2011 02:20
 
NeoGeoNinja
1983parrothead wrote:
Well, not really part of the "SF2 VS. every other fighting game" topic, it's just that I said that some of them sadly didn't qualify as high as highly rated ones by other companies. I also felt bored and became curious about your opinions on Konami's fighting game library.

WELL, I GUESS...
if there is something you can depend upon, it's that someone here will usually have some sort of opinion, although, the likes of Merlin can probably address Konami's fighting game lineage in a more detailed and positive manner than I Wink

1983parrothead wrote:
I'm pretty sure that an unbalanced roster is the most common flaw in fighting games. This JewWario video (and the externally linked PART 2) even mentions "balance"

THANKS FOR INADVERTENTLY...
sharing this 'top 5 fighters' video. It's always interesting to see lesser known individuals, who can clearly play the games' opinions on such matters. I actually REALLY respect this 'Hanzas' choices, although I'm NOT a fan of SSF2T myself. His intense smugness was a little offputting, although, I'll just put it down to him being over smiley, comfortable and enthusiastic.

His '1st' point, however, was utter bollocks though: a game must have a large player base to be liable for top 5 status, thus making it tournament staple. Then contradicting himself by saying not all games played at tournaments are the best fighting games ever. Get a grip! The Real Bout Fatal Fury series is easily one of the best fighting game series' I have ever (had the pleasure to have) played, and that series has never had a strong tourney following to my knowledge.

His '2nd' point, whilst NOT complete bollocks, contradicted his '1st' point again, by discussing balance as a factor of 'top 5 ever'... seeing as the likes of the HEAVILY balanced MVC2 and MVC3 are always big on the tournament scene.

Yeah, this guys credibility - for me, is only hinged on his decent top 5 picks, not his intelligence or his ability to try and be the all-knowing, all-smug fighting genre expert. Choosing the likes of SFA2 > SFA3, SC1 > SC2 and having the balls to include the mighty TTT in his top 5 EVER made me take him remotely seriously. It was refreshing to hear... right up until No.1 that is...

1983parrothead wrote:
The three TMNT: Tournament Fighters games themselves have mostly characters not only from the 1987 animated series, but also the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Adventures comics published by Archie Comics, and only one character (Karai in the SNES version) from the ORIGINAL series: the 1984 Mirage Comics. Many people don't realize that the 1987 TMNT is made the same way as the cartoon shows and films based on video games (e.g. Double Dragon, Street Fighter) and not-so child-friendly films (e.g. RoboCop, Rambo & the Force of Freedom). I'm talking about the ones shown by YouTube user "theswitcher", who's account is now disabled. The cartoon show and film creators took the source material and refine them to fit a certain standard or preference of theirs: by replacing serious content with zany stuff that are considered by several people awful things.

SO, I COULD BE WRONG, BUT...
am I to understand that, what you're saying is, that the TMNT/TMHT that 'we' (certainly me!) all grew up on - including comics, games, TV shows and fims, were actually derived from a more serious, and more importantly, EARLIER source material. Like a proper dedicated Turtles comic so to speak of a more serious nature? I used to have comics as a child by 'Eastman & Laird'. Were these also the by-product of the original concept? Interesting subject as I never knew the Turtles existed BEFORE the Turtles... so to speak Wink

1983parrothead wrote:
I showed a list of some 3D and some 2.5D fighting games to YouTube user Plexosolarasolas to see if he could perform combo videos of them, and he said "there are a lot with very good potential", and I only heard him mention three examples: Ninku, Battle Tryst and Heaven's Gate. He also said "However, on the other hand, some of them are worthless on the combo department (FIST). And there are some that i didn't know about, so thanks to let me know them!"

YOU MENTIONED...
Heavens Gate. Hahaha... now that IS a bad fighting game.

1983parrothead wrote:
Some of Konami's fighting games were shown in RacketBoy's Best Undiscovered 2D Fighting Games list.

AGAIN, ANOTHER...
enjoyable read. Thanks. Although, aside the likes of Konami's Arcade fighters and IGS's fighters, I knew pretty much all of them! Interesting, as some are titles I certainly wouldn't be promoting as 'hidden gems'...

Ninja
i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/NeoGeoNinja/NGNsignatureRev1.jpg
 
merlin
Interesting idea for a topic Parrothead. Konami have made some very good fighters. Like you said I'm a big fan of Dragoon Might. The graphics are beautiful with some stunning backgrounds especially the shrine stage of Tsugumi, Kevin's waterfall stage and the pyramid at the end where you fight the evil Dogma. The game plays really well and has some interesting ideas like hang points and 'Bomber' super moves which you can perform repeatedly using only two buttons. Every fighting game fan should give this one a try.

Has anyone got any opinions about Martial Champion? I know it's not amazing but I'm starting to enjoy it more. Graphically it's pretty decent with some nice backdrops like the Kabuki theatre. The fact that you have low, middle and high attacks makes it play differently from SF2. I really like using the Chinese vampire Chaos and the Egyptian princess Titi.

TMNT: Tournament Fighters on the SNES is excellent. I used to play that one a lot. Anyone tried the Mega Drive version?
 
reelmojo
I played TMNT on Genesis way back when it was new and didn't get into it much, but that was obviously a long time ago. Still, I remember reading on Shoryuken's forums that the SNES version is the one you want.

I definitely recommend Dragoon Might to everyone. Merlin and I had some great matches online a while back. He mostly destroyed me, but it was still really fun. I feel like if Konami had put some money behind DM, ported it to home consoles and sequelized it, it could have become a popular series. It came out in the arcades in 1995 so is would have made a great launch game for the Saturn or PS1.

I have tried Castlevania Judgement. My friend bought it for $10 to make his CV collection more complete. That game hurts my soul. I love Castlevania so much, and I love fighting games so it had the potential to be one of my favorites. Instead, it feels like the developers hate fighting games and Castlevania so much that they felt the need to desecrate both simultaneously.

...and I feel like I'm being too nice about it.

So when you think of Konami fighting games, please think of Dragoon Might and forget CVJ ever happened. That's what I try to do.

On a very very odd note, has anyone tried DreamMix TV World Fighters? It's a cross over game that plays similarly to Smash Bros and features characters from Konami, Hudson, and Takara. The Konami characters are Simon Belmont, Twinbee, Power Pro-kun, Solid Snake, and Moai (from Gradius). It's... really weird and I didn't really get into it, but I also didn't give it that much play time yet. It's technically a Hudson game, but I figured it was worth mentioning. Where else can you see Optimus Prime versus Bomberman versus Twinbee?

YouTube Video

 
NeoGeoNinja
reelmojo wrote:
I played TMNT on Genesis way back when it was new and didn't get into it much, but that was obviously a long time ago. Still, I remember reading on Shoryuken's forums that the SNES version is the one you want.

I OWN THE SNES VERSION...
myself, and as I said earlier, it plays REALLY well. It's just the weird roster that hurts it. As Parrothead says, it may well have a cast harking back to the original comic etc, however, I'd say the LARGER percentage of PPL truly interested in the Turtle craze (back when I were a wee boy!) were centered around the cartoon etc, thus familair characters are SORELY missing... Bebop, Rocksteady, Splinter, Casey etc. Even April would have been a cool addition, perhaps using her Mic like a Kusarigama! Regardless, you cannot go wrong with any of the Turtles themselves, or my fave in-game character, The Shredder!

reelmojo wrote:
I definitely recommend Dragoon Might to everyone. Merlin and I had some great matches online a while back. He mostly destroyed me, but it was still really fun. I feel like if Konami had put some money behind DM, ported it to home consoles and sequelized it, it could have become a popular series. It came out in the arcades in 1995 so is would have made a great launch game for the Saturn or PS1.

I'LL DISCUSS THIS...
with Merlin at some point, 'cause he's the guy who deals with my emulation woes (I'm useless at that kind of stuff). Hopefully I will get to have a go with this at some point, maybe even online too! As usual though, like you've already said, it's a shame this didn't receive a Saturn port. Especially as they're all petty much amazing too!

reelmojo wrote:
I have tried Castlevania Judgement. My friend bought it for $10 to make his CV collection more complete. That game hurts my soul. I love Castlevania so much, and I love fighting games so it had the potential to be one of my favorites. Instead, it feels like the developers hate fighting games and Castlevania so much that they felt the need to desecrate both simultaneously.

...and I feel like I'm being too nice about it.

HAHAHAHA...
I never bothered getting around to playing this one. I do have a Wii and I also have an undying fondness for the Castlevania series (yes, pretty much all of them!) and... of course... the idea of a Castlevania fighting game - theoretically - sounds fantastic! Konami SHOULD have got 8ing (of Bloddy Roar origin) to make it. It would have been amazing! Guess their in Capcoms pocket though now, huh? And, speaking of Hudson and 8ing...

reelmojo wrote:
On a very very odd note, has anyone tried DreamMix TV World Fighters? It's a cross over game that plays similarly to Smash Bros and features characters from Konami, Hudson, and Takara. The Konami characters are Simon Belmont, Twinbee, Power Pro-kun, Solid Snake, and Moai (from Gradius). It's... really weird and I didn't really get into it, but I also didn't give it that much play time yet. It's technically a Hudson game, but I figured it was worth mentioning. Where else can you see Optimus Prime versus Bomberman versus Twinbee?

CAN'T REMEMBER IF...
this came out for the Cube or PS2? Or maybe even both! However, I've definitely looked at buying this in the past, but just never did. I think it has Bloody Roar characters thrown in their too, doesn't it?

Hmmm... maybe one day.

Ninja
i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/NeoGeoNinja/NGNsignatureRev1.jpg
 
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