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Thread Author: marktheshark
Thread ID: 3118
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There are 22 posts in this thread, and it has been viewed 6509 times.
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Biggest SNK mistakes or related disappointments?
marktheshark
So what do you think are the worst mistakes that SNK has made? What do you think is the biggest SNK-related disappointment?


Anyways, I think these are the biggest mistakes:

Not canceling the NGPC & releasing the games for the GBC. - Business-wise, it was a mistake to release the NGPC at all. The sales of the original NG Pocket combined with the NGPC only sold a paltry 2 million. I wouldn't be surprised if SNK lost money on the NGPC. If they had canceled it early in development & release the games for it on the GBC instead, then they wouldn't have lost as much money. They even might make a small profit out of it.

Focusing mostly on KOF, Metal Slug, & occasionally Samurai Shodown. - Ok, this is obviously about SNKP, but this might've started back in the late SNK days. Back before the NG came out as well as the early NG days, SNK was releasing games on a diverse amount of genres & series. There were Beat em' ups, Shmups, Sports, 2D Fighters, Racing games, & even an RPG. However, the diversity began to wane around the mid-90's. Fortunatly, the NGPC helped to regain some of it, but it didn't last. Nowadays, SNKP just keeps rehashing KOF, Metal Slug, & occasionally Samurai Shodown. When would we ever get a new Riding Hero, Magician Lord, or even a new Fatal Fury game?

Not attempting to release a lot of their PSX & PS2 games outside Japan. - This is just annoying. How is that Capcom & Arc System Works can release their 2D games on the PSX & PS2, but not SNK?


This may be the most controversial:



Not discontinuing the NG earlier. - Isn't one of the reasons that SNK went under is because of their Neo games being pirated? So why didn't SNK discontinue the Neo before shutting down? Just what was stopping them from moving on to another arcade board that wasn't pirated at the time like the NAOMI?
 
NeoGeoNinja
marktheshark wrote:
So what do you think are the worst mistakes that SNK has made? What do you think is the biggest SNK-related disappointment?

Anyways, I think these are the biggest mistakes:


HEY MARK...
interesting subject matters as always! Cool Keep up the good work. I'd like to address a couple of your points in minor detail...

marktheshark wrote:
Not canceling the NGPC & releasing the games for the GBC. - Business-wise, it was a mistake to release the NGPC at all. The sales of the original NG Pocket combined with the NGPC only sold a paltry 2 million. I wouldn't be surprised if SNK lost money on the NGPC. If they had canceled it early in development & release the games for it on the GBC instead, then they wouldn't have lost as much money. They even might make a small profit out of it.


Regarding the GBC vs NGP/C? I understand what your saying, however, the problem lies in that SNK obviously felt that there was no available handheld hardware/tech then powerful enough to drive their ideas of good their handheld games should be. All you have to do is see SShodown or SF2 running on a GB console to see that the games were released out of popularity and demand as opposed to choice. SNK 'chose' to creat a console with their preferred specs (down to the d-pad!) to release, what they considered to be 'true' representations of their beloved franchises. Failure or not, I'm glad they bothered - for selfish reasons of course Wink

So there is SENSE in what your saying, but it's always easy to look back and criticise in hindsight. GB stepped up to 'Colour' and SNK did the same. It makes sense. Maybe not now, but it did then. After all, SNK had already created the hardware for the NGP - so upgrading was finanically viable - as the money for the entire 'project' had already been laid down so to speak. The R&D, the hardware design, the manufacturing process PCB's for consoles and carts alike etc) and so on. So why not? It made sense at that time to give it a 2nd chance. After all, the GBA didn't hit home (the next significant leap in tech) until 2yrs later - or thereabouts.

marktheshark wrote:
Not attempting to release a lot of their PSX & PS2 games outside Japan. - This is just annoying. How is that Capcom & Arc System Works can release their 2D games on the PSX & PS2, but not SNK?

NOT ENTIRELY TRUE...
SNK and CAPCOM have released plenty outside of Japan, especially here in the UK. It's also true that Capcom AND Arc have also released games exclusively (and frustratingly!) ONLY in Japan that could have been released in the 'West'. So your comment doesn't exactly 'hold water' as it were. Also, for your information, I actually CALLED 'Ignition'... the people responsible... the people I'm grateful to for releasing all those SNK games here in the UK. When I mentioned my surprise of certain titles ever even reaching these shores (i.e. NGBC & KOF NW) the guy on the other end thanked me and also chuckled at their loss saying such releases had been 'pointless'.

Ninja
i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/NeoGeoNinja/NGNsignatureRev1.jpg
 
Catseyes H Sandhu
Your right, with todays technology SNK could released seequels to other games in it's libuary, like alpha mission 3, nightmare in the dark 2, viewpoint 2 & top hunter 2 or spin masters 2 using the same graphical detail as metal slug.

SNK did what they could.

SNK is the past for the Neo Geo with over 180 games.

The future is now NG Dev team, taking the Neo Geo into the next generation, with a new library of games.

check out their 3rd Neo Geo game GunLord.

http://www.gun-lo...
 
LIFE_IN_2D
marktheshark wrote:

This may be the most controversial:



Not discontinuing the NG earlier. - Isn't one of the reasons that SNK went under is because of their Neo games being pirated? So why didn't SNK discontinue the Neo before shutting down? Just what was stopping them from moving on to another arcade board that wasn't pirated at the time like the NAOMI?


You are right that SNK should have ditched the NG, from a purely financial and business practical perspective. However, from the perspective of a true SNK fan, this point is moot. Why?

1) If SNK quit the NG in the later 90's, when pirating started, we wouldn't have nearly as many great games in the NG library.

2) Fans of the Neo-Geo hardware have a strong desire inside to actually seek and purchase official SNK hardware. Nobody who owns an MVS of AES wants boots or wants to play emulated games forever. Even those without the money (for MVS, AES) would support SNK by purchasing their ports.

3) They DID try to get away from being tied to the NG. With handhelds and even the horrible failure Hyper-64. We all know what happened wit the the Hyper-64...

4) From my perspective SNK was always an "underdog", from the get-go. While other companies went on to become monster companies ( like Capcom), SNK never was for your "average" gamer. I've know people who have been gaming their entire lives and STILL know next to nothing about the NG and much less SNK. Truth be told the NG and SNK are things only a small "cult" of people cared about and in even fewer cases, still care about now.

Just my opinions. But like I said, Marky Mark, I think you're right. If they wanted a chance to survive they should have tried harder, I suppose, to ditch the NG.
Edited by LIFE_IN_2D on 29. January 2011 14:43
i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy86/sevenheadedunicorn/sig-1.jpg

shot in the eye
shot in the brain
shot in the ass...
 
STE C
I do not really think SNK made any serious errors, Ninja's reply is about spot on to be honest. The NGPC was a nice handheld but unfortunately could not loosen Nintendo' s grip on the handheld market.

The Hyper 64 was unfortunately underpowered compared to other arcade boards at the time especially Sega's model 3 so I guess that is SNK's biggest error and probably lost them a whack of money in research/development and poor sales. They had no reason to discontinue the NG early Mark as the MVS was a huge seller with a large worldwide user base ( that still exists now).
 
Bullet
I'd also put forth that the KOF Maximum impact games were SNKP trying to play ball as it were with Sony. I really put much of the fall of 2D in Sony's lap. As with the PS1 and really from 1997 onward Sony had practically pushed 2D games away and made them seem like 2D wasn't relevant and basically refused to endorse or license 2d games unless they were in "retro" style collections.

Just recently, it has become "cool" to go back to 2D again as the cost to develop 3D games sky rockets. Even now we are seeing games like Contra Hard Corps for PSN/XBLA or even games like KOF 13, Blazblue, Arcana Heart 3, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Wario Shake it etc etc already proving 2D is still more than just retro style, but a legitimate way to present games again.

I just hope that SNKP can get back in peoples eyes as a developer to get excited about and get excitement around KOF 13, but at the same time, with neo geo games on PSN/XBLA/Wii Virtual Console, not to mention, the collections for PSP/PS2/Wii they are probably doing OK with their old catalog.
i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/Bulletsonnet/opr00FUJ.gif
 
The eccentric cat
marktheshark wrote:
Focusing mostly on KOF, Metal Slug, & occasionally Samurai Shodown. - Ok, this is obviously about SNKP, but this might've started back in the late SNK days. Back before the NG came out as well as the early NG days, SNK was releasing games on a diverse amount of genres & series. There were Beat em' ups, Shmups, Sports, 2D Fighters, Racing games, & even an RPG. However, the diversity began to wane around the mid-90's. Fortunatly, the NGPC helped to regain some of it, but it didn't last. Nowadays, SNKP just keeps rehashing KOF, Metal Slug, & occasionally Samurai Shodown. When would we ever get a new Riding Hero, Magician Lord, or even a new Fatal Fury game?


I'm pretty sure this is because series' still bear fruit. Its because games like Fatal Fury, Last Blade, don't have a solid fanbase; they only appeal to the hardcore fans. Which, from a business standpoint, would be a rather bad financial move. As mentioned before, SNKP's fanbase has always been an underdog, they do not have a solid fanbase to work for yet. Cutting your coat according to your cloth.

(I do agree, though, that SNK should release a new Last Blade, or a different game, but its just that hard times like these, SNKP is going to go back to their popular franchises)

marktheshark wrote:
Not attempting to release a lot of their PSX & PS2 games outside Japan. - This is just annoying. How is that Capcom & Arc System Works can release their 2D games on the PSX & PS2, but not SNK?


It'd be rather hard to work for the overseas fanbase when the games have a 2D look to them still, even back then, with the PSX and PS2. Early SNK PSX games did not fare too well, the most prominent being SS3 and KOF '95 (granted, the ports themselves were really bad, with slow loading times..)

Arc Sys started their Guilty Gear series on the PSX, so they pay a good amount of attention to their ports on the PS2/PSX. Capcom games like Street Fighter just have a big enough fanbase and popular name that their ports do really well, and it helps that they sometimes turn out better than their original arcade version, rather than just a regular direct arcade port
Without love, the truth cannot be seen.
 
Black Shroud
-Jumping on "3D bandwagon" and grossly misusing HNG64 (created as a powerful 2D platform) for 3D games (basically turning it into lackluster 3D platform that can only produce good visuals for 2D effects), and never really making 2D games for it.

-Never porting HNG64 titles (aside of FF) anywhere, instead going with "die together with platform" policy, justifying it by the fact that platform and games on it were all unpopular (while actually arcade operators having low demand on HNG64 is explained by it being costly and heavy)

-Wasting Shinsho's (PSX SS game) great story/cast on mediocre engine and very low-polygonal character models (while making some Final Fantasy-quality FMVs which occupy 90% of disc space for the same game / and while its possible to include more-polygonal models on PSX as seen in other games). Its as if they were making a video novel in form of game, with character models and gameplay receiving lowest priority and FMVs/story/artwork/music the highest.

-Bad BAD marketing and business decisions, and thereof bankrupcy and nowadays reliance on pachinkos, erogames and other junk.

-Stupid censorship in SS6 and lack of chars like Asura/Shiki (who already had 2D sprites produced) in it, instead making the possibly weirdest choice of newcomers in SS history; plus game not matching previous in several criteria such as atmosphere

-Sen overall gameplay fail (more as an SS game, but also brings nothing special as standalone game), and mostly un-interesting storyline and newcomers.

-Never really bringing characters from older 3D samshos / ff/ buriki into their newer franchises. Well we have Shiki and Asura in SvC/NGBC and Gai Tendo and Silber in KOFXI, thats about it.

-Its a damn shame how Shiki and Asura never appear in 2D Samurai Shodown games (which should've been the priority in first place) but only in crossovers

-Never coming up with sequels to other franchises (LB, Garou, etc), instead whacking ton of money in KOFXII/XIII which still came out buggy and unbalanced; which led to them dropping many other projects including SS-based MMORPG

-various core team members leaving SNKP (Shinkiro included), which makes for a drop in quality.

-KOF MI series "WTF" Falcoon designs and overall weird story with aliens.
Edited by Black Shroud on 31. January 2011 13:56
i160.photobucket.com/albums/t170/Viscelon/sign1lesser.gif
 
spirits.kaillera.ru
Will
The most evident of mistakes from SNK is that they don't proof read their games, so spelling mistakes are very common in many games. Also they did little to absolutely no remake versions of the games. In that sense Blazing Star has had its "LUCKY" letter 'Y' missing from Stage 3 since ever.

In certain standards, I believe SNK had made a wee bit too many ported versions of their various games. The Sega Genesis version games were especially the biggest waste I've seen. Very few SNES version games appealed to me. The NES versions of the old arcade games offered a decent amount of game play. Also many games underrated would probably have been better thought of if they had very good sequels. Surely a sequel to Robo Army, Voltage Fighter or Last Resort would have been worth it.
 
SSJ_Sonikku
There are 2 mistakes they've made that I am still ticked a little:

1. Not releasing the 3 other fighting games from the Hyper Neo Geo 64
2. Keeping Samurai Shodown V Special exclusive to the Neo Geo only.
Edited by SSJ_Sonikku on 31. January 2011 17:45
 
NeoGeoNinja
SSJ_Sonikku wrote:
2. Keeping Samurai Shodown V Special exclusive to the Neo Geo only...

THIS...
not as a mistake, but as a disappointment. I really would have liked to have played this via the SSAnthology, however... Roll Eyes

Ninja
i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/NeoGeoNinja/NGNsignatureRev1.jpg
 
SSJ_Sonikku
NeoGeoNinja wrote:
SSJ_Sonikku wrote:
2. Keeping Samurai Shodown V Special exclusive to the Neo Geo only...

THIS...
not as a mistake, but as a disappointment. I really would have liked to have played this via the SSAnthology, however... Roll Eyes

Ninja


In any case, it sucks really bad. It is like they don't want anybody else Not-Neo Geo fans to actually get the chance to play it (legally). SNKP might have the chance to release it on the Neo Geo Station for PS3 and PSP. If they do that (and they should, seriously) I'd buy it instantly.
 
Black Shroud
SNKP think that SS64/SSAZ/SS5sp games all have bad publicity and seemingly want to have nothing common with these ever. SS64/SSAZ are assotiated with their HNG64 failure whereas SS5sp is assotiated with Nevada-tan scandal (and who in Japan produces games with bladed weapons AND blood & violence? Hint, hint). Asura was included in NGBC only because public demand for him was really big.
Edited by Black Shroud on 31. January 2011 18:09
i160.photobucket.com/albums/t170/Viscelon/sign1lesser.gif
 
spirits.kaillera.ru
boogiepop
Hiring Falcoon.
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
 
NeoGeoNinja
boogiepop wrote:
Hiring Falcoon.

CAN YOU TELL ME MORE...
about this 'Falcoon' character and why he is seen in a negative light by 'most'. I have no idea about what the issue is! Perhaps I could have a better opinion if presented with some idea?

I know he's an artist BUT that is all I know! I don't know what he has and hasn't done :(

Ninja
i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/NeoGeoNinja/NGNsignatureRev1.jpg
 
boogiepop
He was a fan artist that eventually got hired by SNK and did, among other things, the designs for the KOF MI series. Those characters are largely despised by the fans, hence the hatred of him. Most don't like his artwork either (he did the character artwork for 2003) so he's had basically a solely negative effect. I'm glad his ass is out the door so that decent artists can handle the work.
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
 
LIFE_IN_2D
boogiepop wrote:
He was a fan artist that eventually got hired by SNK and did, among other things, the designs for the KOF MI series. Those characters are largely despised by the fans, hence the hatred of him. Most don't like his artwork either (he did the character artwork for 2003) so he's had basically a solely negative effect. I'm glad his ass is out the door so that decent artists can handle the work.


QFT.

Falcoon was the worst thing to hit SNKP.

BTW , did he design Ash Crimson? If so, just another reason I'm glad he's out the f*cking door.
Edited by LIFE_IN_2D on 01. February 2011 02:46
i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy86/sevenheadedunicorn/sig-1.jpg

shot in the eye
shot in the brain
shot in the ass...
 
SSJ_Sonikku
Black Shroud wrote:
SNKP think that SS64/SSAZ/SS5sp games all have bad publicity and seemingly want to have nothing common with these ever. SS64/SSAZ are assotiated with their HNG64 failure whereas SS5sp is assotiated with Nevada-tan scandal (and who in Japan produces games with bladed weapons AND blood & violence? Hint, hint). Asura was included in NGBC only because public demand for him was really big.


I thought they censored SSVSp do to the Sasoba (Sp) slashing incident from Japan?

SNKP basically have solid gold with those 3 Samsho games.

From what I've read, Falcoon did very little for the art in KOF2003, it was Nona.
 
Black Shroud
Im not entirely sure which exactly slashing incident took place but Nevada-tan is usually cited as having biggest impact on games and stuff
i160.photobucket.com/albums/t170/Viscelon/sign1lesser.gif
 
spirits.kaillera.ru
SSJ_Sonikku
Black Shroud wrote:
Im not entirely sure which exactly slashing incident took place but Nevada-tan is usually cited as having biggest impact on games and stuff


This is the incident:
http://en.wikiped...o_slashing

I never knew this incident by the name of Nevada-tan. Plus it is kind of confusing, as it makes you think of the state of Nevada. You have to admit though, that event (Sasebo Slashing) is messed up. Knowing this, I can kind of understand why SNKP censored the game.
 
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