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Thread Author: marktheshark
Thread ID: 2464
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There are 16 posts in this thread, and it has been viewed 2772 times.
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Am I the only one who doesn't like the Dreamcast that much?
marktheshark
I used to like the Dreamcast a few years ago when I was 11-12 years old & when I first got it back in 2001, but looking back at it now, it's not as good as I thought it would be. There's a few things which make the Dreamcast a pretty dissapointing system.

First thing I didn't like was the normal controller. Why does it only have 1 control stick? Not only that, but the d-pad isn't really good to use. I like the trigger buttons, but I wish there was another pair of them.

Another thing I didn't like were the abundance of multi-platform games. This I think was a really big flaw. Too much of the Dreamcast's library are ports of Saturn, Nintendo 64, & PSX games. Why bother getting GTA 2, Mortal Kombat Gold, & Rayman 2 on the Dreamcast when the PSX version of GTA 2 & N64 versions of Mortal Kombat 4 as well as Rayman 2 can be found for a cheaper price & are just as good, if not better? I'm alright with the ports of arcade games though, it's just that I didn't buy a Dreamcast just so I can play some upgraded ports of PSX & N64 games.

There's a few other things about it that annoy me. I can't really think of them right now though.

Don't think I'm just some random PSX, N64, or PS2 fanboy who thinks it's cool to hate on the DC. I've actually played quite a bit of games on the DC. A lot of them were pretty good.

Games I played on the DC are:

Sonic Adventure (My 2nd favorite Sonic game. Very Good.)
Sonic Adventure 2 (My favorite Sonic game. Excellent.)
Sega GT (Feels too similar to Gran Turismo)
Hydro Thunder (Much better than the PSX version. Quite better than the N64 version too.)
Championship Surfer (Sucks.)
Jet Grind Radio (Pretty fun, but I haven't played too much of it.)
Sega Smash Pack Vol. 1 (Very poor compilation. Sound is messed up too much.)
Crazy Taxi (This was really fun.)
Crazy Taxi 2 (Much better than Crazy Taxi 1.)
Power Stone (Really fun game.)
Shenmue (Very boring. Not my type of game. edit: might try again soon.)
Spiderman (This was pretty fun. haven't played it in a while. Upgraded port though.)
Dead or Alive 2 (My favorite 3D fighting game after Tekken Tag Tournament & the newer Mortal Kombat games.)
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater* (Typical upgraded port)
Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation* (Yet another upgraded port.)
MDK 2 (Really fun game)
Capcom vs. SNK (Better than CVS 2 especially in the music, but the game is still pretty lame.)

*Demo version
Edited by marktheshark on 06. April 2010 01:27
 
Atomduck
Hold on... I need to collect myself after what you said about Shenmue:(
Edited by Atomduck on 03. April 2010 21:38
 
RiKo
Hi Mark, i am a big Dreamcast fan, i do agree with some of your points but not all of them. first up i agree the controller needed an extra stick, though i thought the triggers were fine as they were at the time. A game like Quake III really showed the need for an extra stick, and it would have been useful in Shenmue too, and Bangai-O

i think the ports were a good idea to start with because developers were unwillliing to fully jump in and support the DC with wholly new games. the idea was that if it was successful they would make platform specific games. Games like Rayman II and Tony hawks II are a lot better than the PSone versions though. unfortuntely the failure of the DC meant that there do seem to be alot of ports, because not that many games were made compared to other systems.

There are some great games on the DC - just not enough of them. its a beautiful system though, and has the best RGB output of that generation.
u named lots of good games, i think Shenmue is amazing but i know its not to everyones tastes, you need to think of it as an action RPG, thats when it makes more sense.

Jet Set/Grind Radio is def a modern classic. other great/good games are Rez, Samba De Amigo, Outrigger, Quake III Arena - was brilliant online, Phantasy Star Online, Cosmic Smash, Rival Schools 2, SFIII 3rd Strike, Mr Driller, Puzzle Bobble games, Puyo Puyo games, Ecco the Dolphin, Soul Calibur - brilliant at the time, Bangai-O, Border Down, Ikaruga, Mars Matrix, Guilty Gear X, Metropolis Street Racer (now Project Gotham racing), Grandia II, Resident Evil : Code Veronica, Chu Chu Rocket, Toy Commander, Powerstone 2

theres lots of arcade conversions too esp for fighting games. and of ocurse DOA2 was better than the PS2 version as was Crazy Taxi, which was only released on PS2 when DC had already failed.

Its definitely a system that lacks the deeper style of game found on other consoles, but it does have some great games, and if you like the games which are available then its a great system. it was very easy to develop for, and it was practically the same as Sega's arcade NAOMI standard of the time, so from a hardware point of view it was very nice + of course it had a built in modem.

Sega made lots of mistakes with it though, despite getting a lot right, and the hype surrounding the PS2 really hurt it.
Edited by RiKo on 03. April 2010 22:33
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STE C
Mark you are probably right about the pad, 2 analogue sticks would have been better, as Riko said very handy for FPS but it did have the keyboard/mouse if you did want to take advantage of the great Quake 3 conversion.

As for your other comments Mark on the DC I have given them some thought. 1st up I reckon you would have been about 7ish in 2001 if you are 16 now.

The words crappy and Shenmue do not belong in the same sentence, but I was 16 a long time ago Mark and like you I could be a little feisty and anal in my opinions.

Mark I like you, its nice to have younger members like yourself on the site who share a passion for games but the quality/viability of this thread of yours really does reflect your youth and inexperience in such gaming matters. Without prejudice Mark I think you should look carefully at the DC again at some point in the future, you may just feel you were a little harse on it. Further research especially about later DC games is strongly advised Mark.
Edited by STE C on 04. April 2010 16:40
 
NeoStrayCat
Although you don't have the taste for it much, I always liked the DC, and what I had before.

Marvel VS Capcom 1 and 2
Power Stone 1 and 2
Dead or Alive 2
Ready 2 Rumble 1 and 2
King of Fighters '99 Dream Match (KOF '98)
House of the Dead 2
WWF/WWE Royal Rumble
Spawn: In the Demon's Hand
Soul Calibur

And Some Demo's from DCM and one that came with the system.
Edited by NeoStrayCat on 05. April 2010 17:08
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RiKo
oh yes House of the Dead 2 was great i forgot that, Get Bass or whatever it was called was strangely popular too. also Seaman and 18 Wheeler were fun games, and and Daytona 2001 (with the wheel) and Ferrari 355 are very good. The DC was great for innovation it must be said. i do like my Dreamcast but i did miss types of games that i used to have on PSone so i can kind of see how some people might not get on with it if it was their only console. Also dont forget MOTW and Last Blade 2, and Twinkle Star Sprites u cant go wrong with those 3.

Ste - i did have the keyboard and mouse. i did get it cos the joypad was so rubbish for it lol. thats the only game i used it for. i wanted to get phantasy star but i didnt have time to play it.
Edited by RiKo on 04. April 2010 19:18
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NeoGeoNinja
I'M NO DOUBT...
just going to be echoing the sentiments of RiKo and Ste C really - the DC is one hell of a console and has a plethora of fantastic games, but I suppose I can 'sort' of relate to a couple of your other points - the pad & 'ports'.

I agree. Perhaps releasing the most powerful console in the world (back then) with only a single analogue stick was a minor oversight, but, to me that's all it was: minor. 2 sticks would have been nice BUT personally I like the DC pad just how it is and would have fears over what the proper dual stick pad would look like (probably like a 360 pad!).

My biggest gripe with the DC controller was the downgrade from 8 buttons to 6. Personally, I think they should have added 360-esque 'Bumpers' to have made the button count up to 8... but I got over it eventually. Overall the triggers (innovated by SEGA!) were fantastic and still used by other companies today and also the whole VM slots in the controller was/is very awesome too!

REGARDING PORTS...
I can understand your mentioning this, but it makes sense to release, not necessarily 'ports' but, some of the same games as your competitors, as this:

1) allows you to compete head to head with your competitors whilst offering the same titles for BOTH (or more!) consoles and...

2) it allows you to showcase the raw power of your console when compared to the competitors... in '99, DC ruled > all (not the NeoGeo of course Wink )

After all, years later, PPL would start to think about choosing the Xbox over the PS2 & GC due to it's more polished game versions afforded by M$'s 'superior tech' - or, infinite amount of money... it's debatable.

AS FOR YOUR 'LIMITED'...
gaming experiences (judging by your list), there's not much I can say apart from there are many many great games on the DC you have most probably never played, and indeed, I think your age may have a small part to play. As Ste has mentioned, you were around 6 when the DC came out, as I was around 18/19 years old. At that time and age, the DC was a huge... HUGE leap in graphical and gaming capabilities > PS1, SAT & N64. But alas, it was short lived.

The 'BIG' boys turned up and, thanks to the success of Sony's PS1, the failure of SEGA's Saturn, the forthcoming news of a PS2 AND SEGA's own under-marketing, poor release line-up of games and being overly finicky with who they'd have develop for their new console (i.e. EA counted themselves out!)... in short: the DC was pretty doomed from the get go. Firstly you had all the 'new' Sony loyalists, blown away by the unexpected power and success of the PS1 - surely 1st day buyers for Sony's announced PS2? Secondly, you had the Saturn owners, new comers and long-term fans alike, scolded by the poor performance of the Saturn across all continents (interestingly, SEGA have never been particularly popular in their home country: Japan!). Thirdly, you had the REAL SEGA hardcore fans - who would stand by SEGA no matter what.

In reality, the DC was really a Dream console for those PPL. This would be echoed by the astounding library of excellent Arcade conversions for DC, plenty of Capcom fighters, like the Saturn before it and some (SOME) decent 'heavyweight' games, for the PS generation too (HeadHunter, ResEvil: Code Veronica, ShenMue, Unreal T & Quake 3 etc) But not enough if I was honest. SEGA's DC, imo, was still catering hard for it's own niché of fans, and the PS1 had already proved before that this was simply NOT enough.

Many would like to shoulder the blame for the DC's demise on Sony and would have you believe that it was Sony's lies and harsh marketing techniques that killed the DC. Whilst some of those were contributing factors, it's nowhere near as clean cut as that in reality. SEGA did plenty of damage to themselves without the help from anyone else.

ALL THIS CRAP...
I have just spouted is a very long-wined way of trying to explain how the DC came at an odd time in your life. For PPL my age (round and about), it was a beast to behold, but coming to it nowadays, or earlier - at your age - it must fit into a very odd bracket considering the libraries and selection on offer from the GC, PS2 & Xbox1?

HOWEVER...
considering your passion for the NeoGeo and it's strict arcade roots, I'm suprised you haven't concentrated more on playing the awesome Arcade games available for the DC (across PAL & NTSC - U & J) as opposed to worrying about the multi-format releases for DC back then? I know you have stated that 'I'm alright with the ports of arcade games though', and I'm not disagreeing with your comment, it's just that your games list suggests that all your experiences have been elsewhere. Also, you state that MOST of the games you have played on DC (including the 'always has been horrendous' Sonic Adventure games!) have been enjoyable... so where's the problem?

OH...
and to call ShenMue 'boring' & 'crappy' just proves to me that you played ShenMue in the wrong era. Sure, there are plenty of games that capitalise on ShenMues inovation and originality these days, but that bad boy was really the first kid on the block.

DC Rulez Headbang

Ninja

(p.s. CVS & CVS2 are not lame! ROFLCOPTER!!)
i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/NeoGeoNinja/NGNsignatureRev1.jpg
 
Bullet
"Am I the only one who doesn't like the Dreamcast that much?"

Yes.

Also, not trying to be "Age-ist" or whatever, but it's hard to look and see the bigger picture when you haven't seen the growth of what games had been like up to that point. It was also a time when Sony wouldn't allow 2D games on their system(s) ( unless it was in some value priced collection) and the Sega Dreamcast was a bastion of 2D goodness along with great 3D games, like Shenmue 1 & 2, Mars Matrix, Giga Wing,CVS, CVS2 , SF3 Double Impact, SF3 3rd Strike,Space Channel 5, Garou, Last Blade 2, Fighting Vipers 2, Resident Evil Code Veronica, Jet Set Radio, JoJo's Bizzare Adventure, Virtual On, Toukon Retsuden 4, Fire Pro wrestling D, AJPW2 Giant Gram, AJPW3 Giant Gram 2000, Typing of the Dead, Daytona USA, Chu Chu Rocket,Crazy Taxi, Soul Calibur... I could go on and on. The Dreamcast also had more ram than the ps2 , with a double compression ratio and could do full screen anti aliasing and just had much better texture quality than the ps2, compare Grandia 2 on ps2 to the Dreamcast and many other games I might add on both systems and you'll see the difference. Sega also had an official VGA cable as well and playing games on a monitor really lets the games pop and play them the way they were intended.
So um yeah The Dreamcast is a great machine that was cut short and never given the chance to have that end of life cycle that really let developers get the most out of it, but with the time it had it had a great library.
Mine is still hooked up and played on a regular basis, much more than my PS3 I might add.
Edited by Bullet on 04. April 2010 21:08
i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii174/Bulletsonnet/opr00FUJ.gif
 
NeoGeoNinja
Bullet wrote:
So um yeah The Dreamcast is a great machine that was cut short and never given the chance to have that end of life cycle that really let developers get the most out of it, but with the time it had it had a great library.
Mine is still hooked up and played on a regular basis, much more than my PS3 I might add.


+1

Ninja
i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/NeoGeoNinja/NGNsignatureRev1.jpg
 
RiKo
It had great official arcade sticks too for the price. very chunky and sturdy, there were very much needed for all the fighters Smile

i think theres good points made that you do seem to have played more of the PSOne ports than the original games, so you might have a skewed view of whats available. its an even better console now in a way cos u can get them so cheap, so might be worth seeking out one and getting some quality arcade and original DC games.
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STE C
NeoGeoNinja wrote:
Bullet wrote:
So um yeah The Dreamcast is a great machine that was cut short and never given the chance to have that end of life cycle that really let developers get the most out of it, but with the time it had it had a great library.
Mine is still hooked up and played on a regular basis, much more than my PS3 I might add.


+1

Ninja


Add me to that list
 
marktheshark
Maybe I was being a little too harsh at Shenmue. I played quite a bit of it a while ago. It was ok at best, but it's just not my type of game. Can you guys at least understand why some people don't like Shenmue?

Also, about the ports. I'm alright with some of them. I just wish that there were more good exclusive Dreamcast games though.
Edited by marktheshark on 05. April 2010 05:23
 
shion
Bullet wrote:
"Am I the only one who doesn't like the Dreamcast that much?"

Yes.

Also, not trying to be "Age-ist" or whatever, but it's hard to look and see the bigger picture when you haven't seen the growth of what games had been like up to that point. It was also a time when Sony wouldn't allow 2D games on their system(s) ( unless it was in some value priced collection) and the Sega Dreamcast was a bastion of 2D goodness along with great 3D games, like Shenmue 1 & 2, Mars Matrix, Giga Wing,CVS, CVS2 , SF3 Double Impact, SF3 3rd Strike,Space Channel 5, Garou, Last Blade 2, Fighting Vipers 2, Resident Evil Code Veronica, Jet Set Radio, JoJo's Bizzare Adventure, Virtual On, Toukon Retsuden 4, Fire Pro wrestling D, AJPW2 Giant Gram, AJPW3 Giant Gram 2000, Typing of the Dead, Daytona USA, Chu Chu Rocket,Crazy Taxi, Soul Calibur... I could go on and on. The Dreamcast also had more ram than the ps2 , with a double compression ratio and could do full screen anti aliasing and just had much better texture quality than the ps2, compare Grandia 2 on ps2 to the Dreamcast and many other games I might add on both systems and you'll see the difference. Sega also had an official VGA cable as well and playing games on a monitor really lets the games pop and play them the way they were intended.
So um yeah The Dreamcast is a great machine that was cut short and never given the chance to have that end of life cycle that really let developers get the most out of it, but with the time it had it had a great library.
Mine is still hooked up and played on a regular basis, much more than my PS3 I might add.


Plus it connected to the freakin' NGPC! That alone makes the DC one of the coolest systems in history, in my book. I believe the problem was a lot of guys lost interest in video games during the time of its release (the first big systems of the 00s were a fork in the road for my peers: "Do I stay on with the next generation or do I diverge here?" ). However, at risk of sounding cliche, it is a great, sadly overlooked system. I'm not going to humor you with my take on the multi-platform releases and controller design, but what's already been said (about those issues) is pretty agreeable me too. Basically, I'm jumping on the dog pile saying: it's an arcade board crammed in some plastic for cryin' out loud! LOL
Edited by shion on 05. April 2010 04:43
 
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peiper
i have the official arcade stick which i love...
 
Basashi King
re: the original question, yes - i think you may be the only one around here with little love for the DC.

soul calibur was one of the best beat em up experiences i had; games like crazy taxi were very popular with the gents at university. It was a sociable games machine.

shenmue was a gaming experience unlike anything i had ever had before. a real masterpiece. id be interested to know just how far you got with it before you jacked it in. in any case, give it a couple of years before you consider trying it again.
 
shion
Basashi King wrote:in any case, give it a couple of years before you consider trying it again.


I believe this is the best advice. If we send you back to play it now, you'll just say you've changed your mind to appease us. Try it again when you turn 18.
 
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