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Thread Author: Michael Max
Thread ID: 2163
Thread Info
There are 34 posts in this thread, and it has been viewed 12475 times.
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Rapid/Turbo Controller Ethics
Michael Max
I just wanted to get some feedback to see where you all stood with this subject. In online games, is it un-ethical to use controllers that have turbo on certain buttons? For example I've been playing SSFIITHDR alot online and I noticed ALOT of people use turbo for rapid jabs and also for throws (the throws part I'm assuming...the jabs are blatantly obvious...no one can hit a button 60 times per second last I checked). Since this isn't allowed in the arcade or at tournaments, is there some kind of un-written rule that turbo is not acceptable in online play? I got really tired of ALWAYS getting beaten out by these rapid fire jabs and mp throws (for example, these people can throw you after THEY whiff a move...even when you're clearly trying to land your own counter throw)_that I decided to fight fire with fire. I picked E. Honda and set my Hard Punch button on turbo. Next thing you know I was hundred hand slapping those punks all accross the screen. Good times! But what do you guys think? Is is wrong? I mean, if the competition does it, to me it means you have 3 options. Get so incredibly good at the game that you can beat them even though you are at a clear mechanical disadvantage (don' t have the time), Just lose everytime to turbo jabs and throws that will ALWAYS beat yours (don't have the desire for that I'm afraid), or join in on the turbo madness, honour be damned. As for me, I've chosen the third option but I'm very curious as to how the rest of the gaming community feels.
Edited by Michael Max on 02. December 2009 14:13
 
cthulhu
Personally I think using Turbo buttons goes against the whole idea behind Fighting Games...it's all about skill and if you can't pull off moves because you can't hit the buttons fast enough, then you should practice untill you are finally able to pull off the move. To me, if a game doesn't give the player the option of Turbo, like some Shmups, then using Turbo buttons is basically the same as cheating.
Edited by cthulhu on 02. December 2009 14:12
My arcade stuff

"ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!"
 
Michael Max
I used to think that way too. But if there is absolutely NO rule against it either written or otherwise, and no penalty for doing it, is it cheating? I mean if there were no referees at all do you think basketball players would observe the "no more than 2 steps without dribbling the ball" rule? Hell no! They'd be running around like football players...My point is that we may "think" it's cheating but when there's nothing to stop your apponent from using it, its pretty damned frustrating.
 
Michael Max
I feel like Jose Conseco up in this joint.
Edited by Michael Max on 02. December 2009 14:23
 
Basashi King
i personally wouldnt want to do it. i only play vs in arcades really, but my feeling is that using turbos would stop my game developing - or worse, force it to develop in a stunted, penile direction. screw that.
 
RiKo
yep turbos are for losers, peole with low-self esteem who make them selves feel better with hollow meaningless victories. Be a winner and rise above them is my advice. I hate people who try to gain an advantge in ways like this. if i won like this it would take the fun out of my victories. i even enjoy losing as long as i performed well. in fact if i win by a fluke, it doesn't mean so much as a hard-fought loss. people wo spam fireballs etc i am not keen on either, cos its a joyless way to fight, but at least if they are doing it legimately then its fine.

when i was looking for vids for Xenon II all the ones i could find had auto-fire on which ruins the game + drowns out the fine music. I also don't like fighters when they give you the option to put special moves on the trigger buttons or throws. you are meant to be skilled to do them, it ruins the balance of the game overwise.
Edited by RiKo on 02. December 2009 14:38
Mini-Reviews of films I have just watched : http://richwatmov...press.com/
Mini-Reviews of ZX Spectrum games : https://iplayzxsp...ress.com//
 
http://www.youtube.com/user/PhoenixRisen7
merlin
Well Michael I personally think it's unacceptable for people to use a turbo function in a fighting game. In fact I would equate it with cheating but I can understand perhaps that if everyone else was doing it why someone might possibly feel it was justified. Like RiKo said you wouldn't get any real feeling of satisfaction from your victories. I personally would never do it myself.

Some Kaillera servers can detect when autofire is being used. One time I was playing a fighting game online with someone and noticed all of a sudden they were doing a lot of rapid light punches. A message popped up that autofire was detected. I asked the person about it and they then accused me of using it, quit the game and told other people on the server that I had been using it!!! I was just using a standard PS2 controller.
 
Michael Max
Yeah, the thing is, I don't use turbo for spamming jabs. I just use it for Honda's hundred hand slap because I hate banging repeatedly on my 120 dollar joystick's buttons to pull off a special move. And the move is just as counterable by a skilled apponent. But with all these options to assign any button combination to any button, it seems like the norm nowadays to augment your controller to fit whatever style you want. I know harcore gamers would never do this, and thats part of what set's them apart, but why is it wrong if you're doing something that everyone else has access to as well?
 
Basashi King
he busted out the old 'whoever smelt it dealt it', did he?

cheeky git!
 
Michael Max
merlin wrote:
Well Michael I personally think it's unacceptable for people to use a turbo function in a fighting game. In fact I would equate it with cheating but I can understand perhaps that if everyone else was doing it why someone might possibly feel it was justified. Like RiKo said you wouldn't get any real feeling of satisfaction from your victories. I personally would never do it myself.

Some Kaillera servers can detect when autofire is being used. One time I was playing a fighting game online with someone and noticed all of a sudden they were doing a lot of rapid light punches. A message popped up that autofire was detected. I asked the person about it and they then accused me of using it, quit the game and told other people on the server that I had been using it!!! I was just using a standard PS2 controller.


Interesting. What is Kaillera? I wondered if any servers could detect that sort of thing. I think there should be some kind of disclaimer in fighting games if this sort of thing is frowned upon or not because I don't get to any arcades and I don't really know what the standards are for online play. That's why I started this thread. Keep the opinions coming guys.
 
Shiny
ANYONE using turbo/auto fire in ANY game is a pussy.

Why not have special moves mapped to one-touch buttons too, or better yet, get the CPU to play on your behalf... Can't play? Don't play. Simple as.
i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/huwuno/avbar5.png
 
cthulhu
Shiny wrote:
ANYONE using turbo/auto fire in ANY game is a pussy.

Why not have special moves mapped to one-touch buttons too, or better yet, get the CPU to play on your behalf... Can't play? Don't play. Simple as.


My point exactly...if you're not able to pull off the moves normally, either practice or fuck off...this is the reason why I don't like or don't want to play online games against other people, they cheat whenever they can. The button mapping thingy sounds like the Mortal Kombat II cheat mode on the Megadrive where you could have 1 button Fatalities...where's the fun in that???
My arcade stuff

"ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!"
 
Basashi King
hey guys, dont hold back! why dont you say what you really think. LOL
 
merlin
Michael yes I do see your point and can understand why you would want to use Turbo. Although like I said I wouldn't use it myself I guess if people you're playing against are choosing to use it then it perhaps can't really be considered cheating because it's a level playing field where no one is really gaining an advantage.

I think only Emulinker Kaillera servers can detect autofire but I could be wrong. Michael Kaillera is basically a way of playing online with a PC using emulators. You can play literally thousands of console and arcade games online. You just need a Kaillera compatible emulator. I'm thinking of starting a thread about it because I get the impression a lot of people have never used it before.
 
Mr Vengeance
Couldn't agree more with Cthula and RiKo - play properly, or not at all!

Or alturnatively Michael, play with people you know that won't cheat, then you'll be happy days. Don't lower yourself to their level......
 
Michael Max
A lot of good points here guys. I think I'll go back to old school turbo-free playing. But you have to admit the dilemma is certainly a real one and with more and more competitive games being on-line, it's only going to get worse. To go back to my previous basketball analogy: Imagine all the referees went on strike. But the NBA kept playing games. The only thing that determined the winner was how many points were on the board after 4 quarters of play. Now your apposing players are fouling, goal-tending, traveling, stepping out of bounds, basically doing everything against the "code". My point is video games have no real "code" when it comes to on-line play. People do anything to win, period. No refs, no foul.
Edited by Michael Max on 02. December 2009 17:05
 
Michael Max
merlin wrote:
Michael yes I do see your point and can understand why you would want to use Turbo. Although like I said I wouldn't use it myself I guess if people you're playing against are choosing to use it then it perhaps can't really be considered cheating because it's a level playing field where no one is really gaining an advantage.

I think only Emulinker Kaillera servers can detect autofire but I could be wrong. Michael Kaillera is basically a way of playing online with a PC using emulators. You can play literally thousands of console and arcade games online. You just need a Kaillera compatible emulator. I'm thinking of starting a thread about it because I get the impression a lot of people have never used it before.


Sounds awesome. I did the whole MAME and console emulator thing last summer but ditched it all in favor of ole' fashioned, store bought stuff. It just felt like stealing to me but I got no judgement on those that do it. It's easy and VERY fun. To emulate or not to emulate? Now that's a whole other ethical bag of worms isn't it?
Edited by Michael Max on 02. December 2009 17:11
 
cthulhu
Michael Max wrote:
A lot of good points here guys. I think I'll go back to old school turbo-free playing. But you have to admit the dilemma is certainly a real one and with more and more competitive games being on-line, it's only going to get worse. To go back to my previous basketball analogy: Imagine all the referees went on strike. But the NBA kept playing games. The only thing that determined the winner was how many points were on the board after 4 quarters of play. Now your apposing players are fouling, goal-tending, traveling, stepping out of bounds, basically doing everything against the "code". My point is video games have no real "code" when it comes to on-line play. People do anything to win, period. No refs, no foul.


I do understand your dilemma and I know this is going to get worse seeing how many people play online games these days, especially when more and more Fighting Games offer online play. Still, I would never use Turbo in any game as for me it takes the whole skill thing out of the equation...a huge part of the fun is lost that way, you can never say that you're good at that game if you resort to such cheapness.
Isn't there a way to agree with your opponent before you play a game that using Turbo buttons is not allowed?

Michael Max wrote:
Sounds awesome. I did the whole MAME and console emulator thing last summer but ditched it all in favor of ole' fashioned, store bought stuff. It just felt like stealing to me but I got no judgement on those that do it. It's easy and VERY fun. To emulate or not to emulate? Now that's a whole other ethical bag of worms isn't it?


You know, I really like MAME, but I prefer to have and play the original game the way it was supposed to. MAME is great when you want to try games before spending a lot of money on the real deal. I also use other emulators besides MAME to try out games.
Also using emulators to play games really isn't stealing if the games you play are old and not for sale anymore (not supported on any console or other platform), the company that released the game will never get money for it since they'll only get money if the game is being sold through a distributor.
My arcade stuff

"ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!"
 
tony starks
Pfft
Basashi King wrote:
he busted out the old 'whoever smelt it dealt it', did he?

cheeky git!


Whoever said the rhyme done the crime Pfft

Turbo is for children.
Do arcade cabs have turbo buttons, nope so then it ain't right.
As mentioned before, no real satisfaction of winning, cheap wins sucks (see points above)
It can be frustrating playing against a turbo player but learn to adapt and win.
After all it's all about the competition and you're not going to enjoy playing somebody if they are not a challenge Wink
Simples Cool
Edited by tony starks on 02. December 2009 18:13
Starks is always out
 
Powerwave
winners dont use drugs.... or rapid fire Smile
"Handsome punch-bags never loose battles"
- powerwave the punch bag (bonus kun's lame brother)
 
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